The Power of a Rebbe’s Blessing?
More top quality chuchma on Dark Light’s Ask the Fundamentalist.
To demonstrate the power of a Rebbe’s blessing, Dark Light offers a most dubious proof.
“A righteous person has a power of prayer more than most of us. Torah scholars (Chassidic or not) who have virtually perfected their character are known to have such powers. Until his passing several years ago, tens of thousands flocked to Rabbi Yaakov Yisrael Kanievsky (the “Steipler”) for his blessing.
It’s known that prior to their highly dangerous but successful air strike on the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1980 [sic], the Israeli pilots appeared before the Steipler and asked for his blessing. He told them “go in peace and return in peace.”
Forget about whether or not the power of blessing in such situations is real or not. The question here is whether the pilots did, in fact, go visit Rabbi Kanievsky prior to the strike. Why would they? Were they haredim who believed in daas Torah? Is that who comprised the elite of the elite of the Israeli air force? In 1981?
Ohr Somayach declares this meeting is “known.� Well pray tell, where is the source? None is listed in the footnotes, only two tractates of the Talmud, which were written a good few years prior to Rabbi Kanievsky’s reign as Godol HaDor. Did Rabbi Kanievsky record that such a meeting occurred? Did the pilots write about the blessing they received? Apparently not, or a source would have been footnoted,
If Ohr Somayach is willing to spread such a mayseh as a “knownâ€? fact in English, in public, online, through conflation of myth with verifiable fact, in order to bolster their ultra-Orthodox understanding of how the secular contemporary (contemporary, not modern, chas v’shalom) world turns…consider how much more they erroneously spread and conflate stringency and radicalism for Normative Judaism in private, which is more difficult for beginners to verify.
It isn’t an open-ended question. I was there. The answer is more.
Much more.
18 comments
Why you do continuously use yiddish phrases to try and make yourself look like you know what you’re talking about? If you abhorr the Orthodox lifestyle, why must you continuously use the language?
Cashman, thanks for the rhetorical questions. I presume you have no actual defense here for Dark Light, but concede they are a basket case of dishonest, quiescent fundamentalism. Correct?
If you abhorr the Orthodox lifestyle, why must you continuously use the language?
Yiddish isn’t only an Orthodox language.
Nigritude Ultramarine,
Don’t confuse their hagiography with actual Eastern European Jewish history. Clearly all Yiddish speaking Jews in Eastern Europe were not just Orthodox, but ultra-Orthodox. How do we know? Because they spoke Yiddish!
Cashman,
DK does not abhor the orthodox lifestyle. He actually finds more appropriateness in it than in any other sector of judaism or in any other religion. His problem is when Judaism is laced with fundamentalism, meaning when there are levels of pathological practices that act as band-aids or shields that may mask other problems. As you have seen, frum Judaism has veered more and more to the right in very recent years, and there is an unhealthy polarization that continues.
A far as the yiddish stuff goes, well, DK just loves yiddish. Seriously.
Dark Light leaves out the MILLIONS of times the rebbeims prayers Haven’t work… Does that mean they failed or maybe it just doesn’t make a difference. Dark Light should be using personal empowerment but then they’d lose their fundamentalist control.
It stems from previous holy Rebbe’s in Eastern Europe, and North Africa. If it floats someone’s boat, it is not a problem for me.
im confused, does that mean when we pray to god and we dont get our wish then should shouldnt pray?
personally i think its like chicken soup, we dont know if it helps, but it certainly cant hurt.
No, Fran, it means we shouldn’t pray to rebbes and claim all of Israel’s victories stem from their blessing when they had nothing to do with it.
“personally i think its like chicken soup, we dont know if it helps, but it certainly cant hurt.”
Again, that’s a separate issue. The question here is whether Ohr Somayach and others are passing a long a bogus story as fact up without verifying its veracity. It appears they are doing just that.
Now run along, and recruit more public school kids to this stupid fundamentalist institution. Their parents don’t know the difference.
Yet.
What fundimental institution. Are you calling orthodox jews fundamentalist?
In addition there is no proof that the story is bogus, just little evidence that it is true, which doesnt make it false. We should investigate rather then bashing each other back and forth.
This jew on jew hatred isnt good for rebuilding the temple
Abby, if you read their internal literature, by their, I am referring to Charedish like Yated Neeman paper for example, although it is only a newspaper and I find their political attitudes distasteful, but certainly it is an accurate portrayal of Charedi thinking.
They constantly scorn what they call Secular education. Constantly, week in, week out.
This includes a place like Yeshiva University, they don’t mention them by name as a detestable place but they don’t mention them either.
This is as opposed to the rest of us, who don’t wear black hats and yearn to spend years at a Kollel, paid for by some college grad doctor or lawyer.
This is the objection. The plan of the big Kiruv places is to take an educated, secular knowledge person and turn them into a Kollel sitting person.
When there is a middle path. but they don’t offer this middle path they go right for the Yeshivish path.
This is deceitful and deception, bec. as they point out,these persons the BT’s are Tinok Shenishbu, meaning the Kiruv places are free to do what they want with them.
Some to their credit so to speak, are so large orgs, that they can actually provide inhouse jobs
for these BT’s but I doubt that even they can fill the void.
You are coming to conclusions to fast.
It seems that the reason they said “It’s known” is to answer you question about the stories truthfulness. By mentioning that the story is known they are saying that it is known within the frum community and that there are people who witnessed this and can verify it.
Why don’t you try emailing the website that posted this story?
Then, if you are right, you can spread your wisdom about the evil rabbis and their master plan for world destruction.
Yoss h,
“By mentioning that the story is known they are saying that it is known within the frum community and that there are people who witnessed this and can verify it.”
No one witnessed it and no one can verify it, because it never happened. Now run along, and go trade rebbe cards with your friends.
“No one witnessed it and no one can verify it, because it never happened. Now run along, and go trade rebbe cards with your friends.”
so did you email the website and contact the person who wrote this story? Did he tell you that the story was fabricated or that there were no witnesses?
Or maybe you just know that it is false. Because how else would they get thousands of Jews to follow their extremist ways. Is that the logic behind your conclusion?
yoss h,
Though sources were given for the Talmud’s proof a a Tzaddik’s power of blessing, none were given about the Steipler’s supposed specific blessing to the pilots.
Until proven wrong, we have to assume that is because there is no source because it never happened, as it makes little sense.
And I can certainly prove it didn’t happen in 1980.
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