Rabbi Yonason Goldson Blames Secularism on Boners
February 13, 2008 Aish, BeyondBT, Haredim, Ohr Somayach/Dark Light
Rabbi Goldson writes about his experience at Ohr Somayach. I should note, I met Rabbi Goldson at a Dark Light branch, and I have nothing against him personally from that experience. I think he was a nice person…I didn’t get to know him very well.
But he is a Dark Light paladin.
Rabbi Goldson writes,
I was just settling into my new room when Norman arrived. He didn’t want to be there, and he had no interest in Torah. In fact, he seemed to have little interest in anything at all … except girls [...]
I remember the day he packed up to leave. I asked him what impression six weeks in yeshiva had made on him. I don’t think I’ll ever forget his answer.
“The rabbis are right,” he said. “They’ve answered all my questions. Their proofs are all sound. I can’t refute anything they’ve said.”
“So what are you going to do?” I asked.
“Nothing. I like chasing girls.”
Rabbi Goldson writes,
“I still can’t understand his answer.”
Goldson is lying. He understands the answer just fine. In fact, it is actually the only resistance his kind willingly acknowledges is legit: the enemy of “taivah” – desire. They (Ohr Somayach neo-B’nai Torah types) pretend Gottlieb’s most dubious “proofs” are real…they pretend that evolution is “bunk,” and they pretend that it is perfectly logical to believe that allegorical stories in the Torah are literal.
So how do you explain why so many won’t commit to this obviously divine and rock solid theology and clearly mandated fahfrumpte lifestyle?
You blame all who choose a secular lifestyle (at least, at the time the routine was established) as driven by “the yetzer hara” – the evil inclination.
For Rabbi Goldson, “Norman” isn’t an anomaly at all. He is emblematic of all Jews who do not understand the Torah and Judaism the way he does. Only a selfish desire for something else– especially physical desire for something else– could possibly explain why a person wouldn’t care/choose to live a haredi lifestyle.
Because look – even Norman admits it’s right — everything sure makes sense over there in harediville. But alas…desire takes us away from the truth…
Goldson writes,
How do you teach someone else to care?
Maybe there is no answer. Maybe the only answer is that those of us who do care have to push ourselves to care even more.
Actually, maybe that isn’t the only answer. Maybe some know that there is no proof, even if at a younger age, they can’t refute that which is presented as that. But maybe Norman knew on some level that this wasn’t really the one and final answer, even if he admitted he just couldn’t explain how he knew, or why he felt like that.
And maybe Rabbi Goldson is doing something wrong all too often. Perhaps many resisting his teaching can’t—at their stage of life or education—dispute it exactly, but maybe they don’t really buy into it. Maybe they intuitively sense it just isn’t really true. Maybe they sense that it isn’t going to take them where they are supposed to be going.
And that’s something that takes BTs a long time to figure this out, as we don’t have the years of inoculation to this haredi nonsense that Norman did. It is taking years of collective work to unravel the lies and fantasies and the sleights of hand of the haredi kiruv movement. But that inner voice….wasn’t it always screaming that this wasn’t right, this wasn’t what we should be doing? But we listened to the Gottlieb’s and the Goldsons…and ultimately, the Rabbi Weinbachs, the Rabbi Schachs, the Rebbes…who explained and insisted it was just the boner talking. Just the yetzer hara.
A desire to pursue a vocation…higher secular education…gain life experience…all just yetzer hara. All just a boner.
This is what they preach. Read Rabbi Goldson’s essay. He is not even one of the radicals. He teaches in Aish St. Louis, not Aish Jersualem.
But if it isn’t his Judaism, it’s all just one big boner.
9 comments
Don’t we all know the famous Enlightment philosoboners Prickmanuel Kant, John Shmlocke, and Shlean (mind the pronunciation) Jacques Rousseau?
Well, I discussed this on Beyond BT, but you will surely enjoy this link>/a>, DK! (Hat tip to Dean Esmay!)
You should get Beyondbt to publish that comic!
As R’ Dessler zt’l writes, logic is oftentimes driven by emotions; we want something with our hearts and then rationalize it with our heads. I think it is intellectual dishonesty for any adult with any life experiance to say he never experianced this.
On the other hand, 1) many times we can reach true objectivity 2) even if we never could, and logic with inseperable from our emotions, what else do we have to go on? we must nonetheless follow our logic from lack of a better alternative
I can’t say which decisions are dominated by what. I myself spent a year in Ohr Samayach, sitting everyday in R’ Gottlieb’s classes and years later still cant disprove the majority of what he says (exceptions including evolution, age of universe, views on MO)
One thing that is true is that when someone says:
“So what are you going to do?” I asked.
“Nothing. I like chasing girls.”
He is openly admitting to making an emotion-driven desicion. If i understand DK to be denying that, he is clearly not intellectually honest but trying to drive an agenda.
As for the possibility that someone can deny Judaism and be honest with himself, I think its definitely possible; however, given the obvious emotional push to do this (yes, the boner. dont underestimate it) and my personal experiance with hundreds of these people, i think it very rare. So far, I’ve never met one.
As for those who do reject Judiasm on an intellectual ground, i will given my view of the world unabashedly say Hashem Yirachaim
As for the possibility that someone can deny Judaism and be honest with himself, I think its definitely possible; however, given the obvious emotional push to do this (yes, the boner. dont underestimate it) and my personal experiance with hundreds of these people, i think it very rare. So far, I’ve never met one.
This is nonsense. You have already allowed that certain aspects of haredism can be disproved.
But what of Traditional Judaism generally can be proven?
The “proofs” are very, very weak.
I myself spent a year in Ohr Samayach, sitting everyday in R’ Gottlieb’s classes and years later still cant disprove the majority of what he says (exceptions including evolution, age of universe, views on MO)
Those are three very important exceptions. If his arguments concerning these topics (especially the first two) are refutable, it detracts from the credibility of all of his arguments.
Also,
we want something with our hearts and then rationalize it with our heads.
This works both ways.
@sara/froylein
How could an anti-enlightened froylein express herself in such a rude manner? I am truly shocked!
I experienced an intellectual turning point was finding a refutation of the Kuzari argument on the internet. That was probably the strongest “proof” that affected me.
Still, it took months for me to finally rid myself of religiosity. My family friend spoke to me about how all of this “closes” me off from the world instead of allowing me to “open” up. This rang extremely true, and reminded me of the beauty of my pre-indoctrination mindset, the one I had been raised with for years, to be frei.
I don’t understand the problem.
Tropper, Tendler and many others showed us that there is no contradiction between “chasing women” and “a ferfrumpte lifestyle”…
So why did he not just answer:
Oh, come on, boy, put on a black hat and a suit, and the chicks will love you. Actually, you are permitted to have a pilegesh, etc…
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