Growth From Befriending Skeptics
Ron Coleman has a post on Beyond BT confessing—among other things–about how much he got spiritually out of befriending frum skeptics. And not in that kiruv way, but “as equals.”
Ron writes,
And, off a less beaten path, I chose to establish genuine friendships — not kiruv files — with people who had views about the Torah world and even the Torah itself with whom I previously would not have ever had anything to do, and I engaged them sincerely, as equals, and listened to what they had to say, and then some. In short, I exposed myself to the rough edges. Some pointy-rough edges, in fact, which were encroaching on me stealthily, anyway. But this engagement is what they tell us, as we leave BT school, we’re not supposed to do. And what I wrote in these very “pages” I would not do. But I did it.
The post is kind of shocking…the official line in the BT world for those of us who “fall off the derech” is that we are either 1) evil, or at least are being guided by The Evil Inclination, or 2) “had problems before they became frum.” You know…nuts.
To some degree, Ron demands that all the frummies engage the skeptics, and not run away.
Ron writes,
Maybe my particular wrestling matches were not for everyone, but there is some juncture… some moment… some challenge… some “hard” or obnoxious question, from which each of us, depending on who we are, and where it is, and when, should not walk away. For our own good, our own eternity. That encounter is different for all of us, but at this time in history, in our place, each of us must, at some point, engage this world.
Ron is right, of course. How real can your frumkeit be if it cannot stand up to any skepticism at all? If that’s your constraint…are you really living according to the will of God, or aren’t you merely living according to the nonsensical fantasy of some rabbi(s)?
If this is so, then perhaps the most important function of the skeptic is to encourage the frummie to stop worshipping rabbis as God. When we are afraid of engaging others for fear of challenging the rabbis’ untenable view of life, this is exactly what we are doing.
And how high a medrega (spiritual level) can that possibly be?
6 comments
You can’t bring a riya (proof) from Ron, as he is quite unique. Ivy League graduate, brilliant, highly logical- he is a frum man of steel.
Others can not deal with the same level of challenge as he.
Yes, steel, Avi! Soft, pliable steel!
DK, couple of questions. This term “frum skeptics” — whazzat? Skeptics of frumkeit? Frum people who are skeptical? I am not exactly clear.
I also agree no one should worship rabbis. I don’t think there is really so much of that going around as you think.
“This term “frum skeptics” — whazzat? Skeptics of frumkeit? Frum people who are skeptical? I am not exactly clear.”
People who are either skeptical of frumkeit even if they are in it or who left but were once frum. Usually signals some Orthodox background at one point.
“I don’t think there is really so much of that going around as you think.”
That’s nice, Ron. This from a man who just posted on a site that demands that you CHECK WITH YOUR SPIRITUAL GUIDE on everything.
How is “check with your spiritual guide” the same as “worship”? My clients check with me on all sorts of things and believe me, they don’t worship me.
And where does “the site” “demand” this?
Rigor, David!! Ri-gor!!
We need to define terms. What do you call what is occurring in this video, Ron?
http://kvetcher.net/2007/09/30.....t-leaders/
I would rather not say what I would call it. I will tell you this.
When I went on my trip to Israel a year ago, I asked a trusted rebbi of mine whom I should see, because I wanted a brocha, and advice. This rebbi is someone you would consider very haredi, and so would he consider himself. He has learned with and has close relationships with most of the major non-hasidic haredi figures — gedolim — in the world today and in the previous generation.
He sent me to two particular gedolim, both of whom dispensed brochos and one of whom gave me very personal and very insightful advice.
One name was conspicuously absent from his list, and his concerns were not so different from the ones you identify here.
So you see, David, defining terms is indeed very valuable. You will be more compelling, and interesting, too, when you narrow your criticism and remember the “SAT rule” — any answer featuring “all” or “always” is “always” wrong.
Leave a Comment