Is it okay that Big Aish lies for kiruv?
Big Aish is back online! Let’s give them a hug to welcome them back.
Recently, rabbi Harry Maryles agreed with Marty Bluke that Big Aish’s lying for the sake of kiruv is not okay.
Now, before we say, “But it’s pakuach nefesh! Big Aish is helping the Jewish people by lying to them,” let’s keep an open mind, and look at the objections of two Modern Orthodox Jews to Big Aish lying for kiruv.
The statements in question from Big Aish’s article are as follows.
Let’s get something perfectly clear: Jewish women work. One of my neighbors is a nuclear physicist. I’m a zoo veterinarian.
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And nowadays, like women all over the Western world, they work in every field. Some run their own businesses or are part of a larger corporation. Here in Israel one of my neighbors is a nuclear physicist. Another is a school principal. Several good friends are lawyers. One’s a pediatrician. Two are successful artists. I’m a zoo veterinarian.
[...]
My point is, little is forbidden to us. We work in the fields we want. We have open choices. We can choose to work part-time or full-time.
First of all, Israeli ultra-Orthodox society is not “like the western world.” Not for women, not for men. Okay?
If Aish Hatorah was a Modern or Centrist Orthodox institution then these statements would be perfectly true and not misleading. However, Aish Hatorah is a Charedi institution and it’s goal for it’s students is that they join Israeli Charedi society. The fact is that if Elizabeth had been born to a Charedi family she would not have had a choice to be a veterinarian, a nuclear physicist or anything other then a school teacher. University study is strictly prohibited. In Yerushalayim and Bnei Brak even getting a high school diploma is prohibited (see this post No Bagrut for Beis Yaakov girls?). All the women that she brings as examples fall into one of 2 categories:
1. Baalei teshuva
2. They grew up in modern homesNone of the women cited grew up in a Charedi home in Israel, because if they had they would not be where they are today.
In addition to the issue with secular education and university, there is an issue of tznius. In many parts of the Israeli Charedi world women are not allowed to drive a car because it is not tzanua. There are many seforim published in the last few years on tznius which prohibit women from working in any non-religious workplace. Therefore to state little is forbidden to us is misleading if not an outright lie according to Aish Hatorah’s hashkafa.
I find it very offensive when Charedi kiruv institutions use examples of Baalei Teshiva or people who were brought up in a more Modern home. Using these people as examples of how well religious Jews can fit into society is very misleading when the institutions themselves don’t believe in that hashkafa. According to Charedi hashkafa, Modern Orthodoxy is pasul and University study is prohibited, yet those are the examples they site when trying to be mekarev people. None of the faculty at Aish Hatorah in Yerushalayim send their daughters to university and their daughters do not have the ability to do what they want.
Rabbi Maryles thought Bluke’s post was so important and well written that he reprinted it in its entirety. He noted in the comments section that,
The Aish site implies that such options are perfectly viable when in fact it actually discourages going to college.
In addition to the lies, which is not the fault of the author, is something else kind of interesting. Buried in the usual Big Aish blather about how the Western world sucks and the haredi world rocks…
The Western world defines success as being at the top of ones field, wielding power and making lots of money. In stark contrast stands the Jewish definition: To what degree have you become a developed human being?
…is a shocking admission on how weird, even freakish, are the demands on professional women if followed seriously.
Because, lets face it, I looked weird: the only one in a dress on night duty during large animal rotations.
I would love to meet the rabbi who encouraged her to wear a dress during “large animal rotations” so I could grab his black hat off and smack his head with it over and over and over….
14 comments
Suppose it’s their way of having the end justifying the means…
You have to understand that the Charedi world is not monolithic. Almost every Charedi-born and raised woman on my block has a graduate degree, generally in therapy or education but still advanced secular education. This includes the wife of the kiruv rabbi on my block. In my experience, the Aish rabbis are from the “left wing” of the Charedi world, or at least adopt and live with that attitude.
“In my experience, the Aish rabbis are from the “left wing” of the Charedi world”
I don’t dispute that, but 1) that doesn’t fly in Israel, now, does it? Big Aish is blocked by the RWUO haredi leaders, whom they obey. And that means NO COLLEGE.
No, R. Noach Weinberg is very independent. He doesn’t care what the “Gedolim” say except as it may hurt fundraising and even then not that much. He might not say it openly but he acts that way and makes it very clear to anyone paying attention.
I don’t understand why you would say that…did not Aish retreat from an embrace of macro-evolutionary policy per “daas Torah’s” decree?
Only temporarily. To my knowledge, they retreated for a few months after the Slifkin ban and then returned to their prior approaches.
Back to the original issue. There is essentially no functional LWUO in Israel. The functionalism of the LWUO is essentially banned. So what Aish is describing - -and what the author is referencing — cannot exist in Israel, as even if it is ay-okay with Aish, Aish has no Israeli community outside of its walls and alumni. Hence, Aish’s followers either 1) can’t live in Israel, or 2) have to reluctantly move into a RWUO lifestyle or 3) Have to leave the hashkafic borders of Aish and move into Modern Orthodoxy.
In any of these cases, the author’s situation and insistence that working as a professional with a high-level secular education is normal for Israel’s Orthodox women is not at all the case pragmatically for Aish, as for Aish, Modern Orthodoxy is far from acceptable, and certainly not what they preach.
Which brings us back to the original point. Israeli haredim–even if they secretly harbor Aish HaTorah-esque moderation — do not get to go to college, do not get to go to grad school. That is to say, Aish is lying, just as Rabbi Maryles and Marty Bluke charged.
Aish is not really about making BT’s who stay in Israel, unlike Ohr Someach. The vast majority of them come back here and look and act more or less like people you’d regard as normal and indeed tend to be on the soft left of the “UO” world. This makes the claims by Maryles and Bluke essentially meaningless lashing out, based on little understanding of the relevant community — as usual.
I mean “the vast majority of us,” that is.
Ron,
Not really, as the article specifically asserted that this was true for the Israel’s Orthodox women. This is not true for anyone in a “Ben Torah” (haredi non-chassidic) community, which is the type of community that–at the end of the day–Big Aish would identify with if forced to pick a community between the RWUO and the RWMO.
As we both know, for Big Aish, the lowly Modern Orthodox will simply not suffice.
So their point was clear. They should have been honest and qualified that,
“Obviously, we are not talking about Orthodox women in our own community in Israel, where the rabbis are fanatics and control freaks who hate functionalism utterly and unconditionally”
DK, you’re just making stuff up. You hardly know anyone from Aish, or their wives, or where they live, or what they do there.
B”H
One has to understand that the Beit Yaakov alone differs very much between England or the States and Israel. Israel definitely has a much lower standard and Haredim from Bnei Brak consider the Chulnikkim (Haredim from abroad) as far too modern. The curriculum at the Beit Yaakov in Israel is very different. Let’s call it more a housewive’s school. Some Torah, some Rashi, cooking, household and things.
Having a degree from the Israeli Beit Yaakov does not entitle any girl going to the university. She just couldn’t make it with what she previously learned. The same with the haredi boys school Talmud Torah. No chance for higher education unless you go to some haredi Michlalah (seminary). But there, you also learn science according to Halacha and Zniut.
Once married, hardly any Israeli Haredi wants his wife starting a career. Having a good income yes, but, chas vechaliah, a career. Let alone the chassidic world where evrything is much stricter.
And how could you start career anyway with at least six hungry yelling kids at home ?
American Harediot do find jobs in the high tech field. Customer service and things like that. Other American Baalot Teshuva from the Jerusalem neighbourhood of Beit Vagan sometimes work as lawyers or doctors. But also limited due to the family life.
I know AISH quite well and have never met an academic wife of someone there. The rabbi’s wife mostly stay at home and most students are single anyway.
your article is about why aish lies, when its hashkofa is otherwise i think is really misleading and attempts to make a good organization seem underhand.
the woman you quote lives in harnof, which is populated with many working men and women from all types of communities. here experience is genuine. the buildings here are filled with women without degrees, without careers, and women with degrees and with careers. Some even have careers and no degree (sorry mom…..shock horror… yes it is possible!) or degrees and no careers!!!!!!
but anyway, anyone familiar with the hashkofah of aish knows that the org encourages people to get out there and fight against jewish apathy and assimilation. it fully encourages women to get involved in this fight. it adheres to mainstream chareidi halacha, but not to mainstream chareidi hashkofah when it comes to questions of life direction etc. this is obvious to anyone who looks honestly, and who is willing to stop making stupid diyukim from articles in aish.com and instead, in a spirit of reasonableness, attempts to understand what the place really stands for.
i know what everyone hates aish, but if you look a little beneath the surface, i think you would find a place that is much broader and imaginative than it is given credit for being
moshe
“here experience is genuine” should read “her experience”
“what everyone hates aish” should read “that everyone”
sorry for the typos!!!
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