Actually, we need PRAGMATISTS and (everything) REALISTS.

I’m still waiting for a discussion of the breakdown of the left-right paradigm in the US (under the pressure of chaos caused by mass immigration) + Europe (under the pressure of Islamization).

As as US citizen living in Germany, I would say that a new paradigm is emerging, neither left nor right, strongly scientific and realist in orientation (priority: the ecosytem, climate change) not afraid to criticize Israel as a supportive friend, not afraid to criticize Bush’s clumsy and counterproductive militarism, not afraid to criticize the vast corruption of BOTH the corporate elite AND the welfare system, no illusions about the cataclysm that is the Ismalization of Euorope, but prepared to ambrace cosmopolitanism within a strong European model, proud of the heritage of European culture and willing to defend its values, but not disrespectful of other cultures, unwilling to coddle the rabid anti-Semitism of most Muslims, take women’s and gay rights for granted, pro-eugenics and population control, and willing to manage population attrition in Europe through vigorous fertility programs, not mass immigration of unfit 3rd worlders.

Not left, not right, just sane and rational and pragmatic and realist.

Most whites globally are aware of race differences, but don’t know they can acknowledge them WITHOUT being labeled a right wing crackpot.

That is the option that MUST be offered all whites:

you can be a race realist WITHOUT denying climate change or believing that something as criminally insane as the mass extermination campaign that was the Vietnam War was somehow justified, or getting all mad and angry at Modernist art, or believing executive pay is just at the right level, or that Darwin should be banned by law, or that the old South was Heaven on Earth, and the slaves just darned ‘ol happier and more grateful than anything, and wept like children when they were set free, or any other nutbag, wackjob gibberish.

Once this option is in place, then hundreds of millions will become race realists overnight.

Because, of course, THEY ALREADY ARE, but are constrained by the ideological straitjacket that is the left right paradigm of prepackaged, bundled beliefs.

This may be little more than a schoolyard argument here but I am neither a chicken nor ashamed of my statements or opinions.
In fact I provided a link to my website where my name is featured prominently on the archive page. If I’ve said anything that piques your, or anyone else’s interest you can follow the link. If not, what good is my name going to do you?
That said, my name is David Tatosian. I’m in Chicago. Who’re you? Here’s your chance to shed your feathers and shame.
Also, this business about race realists angrily typing out their opinions on the web pretty much describes the entire blogosphere doesn’t it? Perhaps the thing that sets the race realists apart from their bloviating blogoshpere fellows is the effect they have on those who actually DO take action.
I see nothing to be ashamed about there.
Have a nice day Mr. Neutral.

“And PLEASE, everybody, STOP dancing on the grave or Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. Don’t claim that he was “really a post-racialist” like you, when anyone and everyone who has done their homework on him know that he was a leftist through and through, who HEAVILY criticized the Vietnam War, advocated for the alleviation of poverty in this country, and called to attention the cross-cutting between class and race. (Making him, incidentally, a supporter of affirmative action.) For the sake of the King family, the people who knew him, and his supporters (except maybe Sharpton and Jackson, who still Don’t Get It), STOP co-opting him to fit your ideology.”

I quoted your last paragraph, B. Bar Navi, because it was the only passage of your post that didn’t reek. Although, even there, I could give a damn about “the King family, the people who knew him, and his supporters.” Why would I care about a bunch of crooks?

Going back, we find:

“First of all, you can’t make a simple assertion as ‘hate crime laws favor minorities because colored-on-white crimes don’t count’ without citing some damn evidence. ”

Wowie Maui! Of course, you can. If you are seven years old, or just arrived from Mars, evidence may be necessary. But I don’t discuss grown-up stuff with seven-year-olds or argue with Martians.

“Then if we’re going to introduce the class issue, we get into the stickier issue of when a poor black/Hispanic gang attacks a wealthier person that only HAPPENS to be white.”

Well, I didn’t introduce the class issue in that context at all. (You did read the basis for this discussion before spouting off, right? Right?!) When racist blacks and Hispanics typically attack a white, the victim isn’t “wealthy” at all, or he wouldn’t have found himself in that situation, but in any event, there is no reason to ever assume that the victim “just happened” to be white.

“Or conversely, when a bunch of white fratboys kick around a homeless person of color just for being a damn hobo. To what extent is this a hate crime?…”

That’s odd. For while I’ve heard of several gang attacks on hobos, none was perpetrated by “a bunch of white fratboys.” The perps were typically black.

“Person of color”? Do you mean “black,” Mestizo, or Asian? Of course, “person of color” was until recently a switcheroo of “colored person,” but you pc opportunists are constantly playing word intimidation games within
word intimidation games, and last year a pc professional Asian like you insisted to me that an Asian was a “person of color,” just like a black. That’s funny, considering that 99 percent of blacks would not only deny that, but hate Asians’ guts. Then again, pc professional Asians like you, who seek to make common cause with the very non-Asians minorities who routinely victimize Asians, also despise Asians. So, I suppose there’s a sick sort of symmetry to your world, that is. Unlike you, however, I don’t hate Asians.

“Those laws with racial tones are put in for very good reasons.”

Hell, yeah, to dispossess and disenfranchise whites!

“Also, as an Asian, I find it pretty offensive for self-proclaimed ‘racial realists’ to try to find ideological allies with us.

Are you really offended, or just being a tease? If you’re really, truly, deeply offended, then I say, amen! But I don’t believe you. As a professional, pc Asian, you’re just going through the motions, faking taking offense, like faking an orgasm. “I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m … OFFENDED!!!”

“…the fact of the matter is that we are still a minority in this country… This definitively marks us as ‘the other’, and thus we are subject to many of the same racial dynamics as, say, Hispanics, or black immigrants of African or Caribbean origin.”

And what “racial dynamics” might they be? That was just a rhetorical question; I’m not at all interested in your talking point for that one. The more you talk, the more you lie.

Look at how fiercely you yourself responded to Latte Island.

Latte called me an idiot on Latte’s blog, and took a VNN person’s side, which I found annoying.

In my actual experience (as opposed to paranoid fantasy), whenever I’ve talked to moderate leftist friends about even the mildest racial issues, it turns into a lecture about how deeply wrong, misguided, and evil I am, and how I must overcome my opinions and emulate the fine and righteous moderate leftist.

I’ve had a different experience, although I am probably arguing about different, if related, issues. I have found many people tell me they are “uncomfortable” discussing these ideas, but at least by the time people are in their 30s, they are less inclined to flip out when you bring these issues up. Also, I think those of us from more modest backgrounds (and in NYC, more “modest backgrounds” often means still middle class) feel more compelled to address these issues, as we pay for these policies more than those from higher class backgrounds, as Nicholas Stix touched upon.

Obviously not; as far as I can see, the race realist movement consists of a few dozen people angrily typing out their opinions on the web, most of whom (myself included) are either too chicken or too ashamed to use their real names. Of course you’re being sarcastic, so I guess you agree.

You can isolate and find friend on the moderate-Left who are more reasonable on these issues.
Probably, but confessing my heretical thoughts could ruin me if the moderate leftist I confessed to turned out to be less sympathetic than I’d hoped. In my actual experience (as opposed to paranoid fantasy), whenever I’ve talked to moderate leftist friends about even the mildest racial issues, it turns into a lecture about how deeply wrong, misguided, and evil I am, and how I must overcome my opinions and emulate the fine and righteous moderate leftist. Maybe this says more about my debating skills than anything else, but it’s still not fun.

Look at how fiercely you yourself responded to Latte Island. I haven’t read your archives, so I suspect that there’s some history here I’m not aware of, but what she said in this thread alone didn’t seem to warrant the rebuke. I’m sure you can understand why race realists would be wary and skeptical about an alliance with the moderate left.

First of all, you can’t make a simple assertion as “hate crime laws favor minorities because colored-on-white crimes don’t count” without citing some damn evidence. Yes, the reverse garners national headlines due to the efforts of clowns like Sharpton, but when something happens in the inner city or the backwater country (where, like you said, the journalists “never enter”), how often are incidents involving parties of different colors (but of the SAME or similar economic status) reported as crime AT ALL, let alone as hate crimes? You try to cite a class angle in this, and while I agree that it’s definitely more of a class issue, where in your post did you qualify it as such, and how?

Then if we’re going to introduce the class issue, we get into the stickier issue of when a poor black/Hispanic gang attacks a wealthier person that only HAPPENS to be white. Or conversely, when a bunch of white fratboys kick around a homeless person of color just for being a damn hobo. To what extent is this a hate crime? Is it based more on class, or is there an element of race in it? What if, then, they were the same color? And in any of these cases, how will law enforcement, courts, and the “durned librul” media handle it?

I should also disclose that I am against the bogus “all crimes are hate crimes” argument. I think it’s significant whether a black man beat up a white man (or another black man, for that matter) because he slept with his wife, or if he was of a particular ethnicity/faith/whatever. Were it the latter, there’s often the increased risk of going on to attack other people in the same category, whereas in the former the risk is only extended to “other people who messed around with my woman.” And what of the person who beat someone “just cause they could”? Don’t they teach you that “motive is everything” in law school?

Fact of the matter is, it’s a damned complex picture we’ve drawn out here, and no amount of ersatz Colbertian color-blindness can change that. Those laws with racial tones are put in for very good reasons.

Also, as an Asian, I find it pretty offensive for self-proclaimed “racial realists” to try to find ideological allies with us. Though we have had economic prosperity potentially hindered by things like affirmative action (admittedly a troublesome policy), the fact of the matter is that we are still a minority in this country, with one foot culturally in our nations of origin, voluntarily or otherwise. This definitively marks us as “the other”, and thus we are subject to many of the same racial dynamics as, say, Hispanics, or black immigrants of African or Caribbean origin.

And PLEASE, everybody, STOP dancing on the grave or Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. Don’t claim that he was “really a post-racialist” like you, when anyone and everyone who has done their homework on him know that he was a leftist through and through, who HEAVILY criticized the Vietnam War, advocated for the alleviation of poverty in this country, and called to attention the cross-cutting between class and race. (Making him, incidentally, a supporter of affirmative action.) For the sake of the King family, the people who knew him, and his supporters (except maybe Sharpton and Jackson, who still Don’t Get It), STOP co-opting him to fit your ideology.

See the DLC, a major Democratic faction, as well as the hawkish social-democrats. See changes in NYC under Ed Koch.

As for Islam, If you can give me the name of a “moderate Leftist” or a person of faith who hasn’t and doesn’t support CAIR, ISNA or a host of other Muslim activist groups in their never-ending efforts to install sharia law, I’m all ears.

Here’s a big nominally left Jewish organization for you on CAIR specifically — see how many “condemns” you spot: http://www.ajc.org/site/c.ijIT.....c_frontend

“Doesn’t the injustice of the situation cry out for action? ”

It does. Referendums are one great approach. Who did that? Race Realists? No, Ward Connerly did that.

have a nice day young fella

Hey, I’m not demanding to work with anyone who doesn’t want me. I wrote my own piece on this here moderate-left Jew blog (with some paleo influence, to be sure). It was primarily for (mostly) moderate left and some right-wing Jews, not an invitation for other to come over and insult me and tell me why I am personally responsible for all that is wrong in the U.S. And anyway, if you are happy with how you and yours are successfully shaping this country, then why make any changes on anything? You got it all under control, right? You’re quite happy with how things are shaping up. You don’t need anyone’s help.

So smile more.

Okay, where are they? Why have they had no effect within their own ideological encampments? Non leftists have been speaking out against affirmative action and the rest for quite some time. Where are these moderate leftists?

here are plenty of whites who resent being discriminated against who are not even part of the realist community, and who can be worked with and mobilized. The moderate Left will be able to do that better — not the toughs.

The Minuteman Project was a mobilized grassroots effort. Don’t recall any “moderate leftists” getting involved with that organization. Matter of fact, I don’t recall anyone on the left referring to that group in any but the most virulent terms.

As for Islam, If you can give me the name of a “moderate Leftist” or a person of faith who hasn’t and doesn’t support CAIR, ISNA or a host of other Muslim activist groups in their never-ending efforts to install sharia law, I’m all ears.

In fact, if you are on the left, you and your fellow ideologues have been consistently on the side of policies and programs that are destroying this country. It’s what the left does.

Finally you mention that we should reach out to you so as to enlist your help in fighting the preferential treatment accorded various minorities, so my question is; why do we need to reach out to you? Doesn’t the injustice of the situation cry out for action? Isn’t that enough to spur you to act? What’s holding you back? Gotta get permission from the hugh committee or something?

have a nice day young fella