The Glorious Beginnings of NCSY’s “Kollel” Program
December 10, 2008 Kiruv, NCSY, Orthodox Union Baruch Lanner, NCSY Kollel, NCSY summer program, NCSY trips
As some of you may remember, I have issues with an NCSY trip called “Kollel.” The name strikes me as suggestively encouraging a haredi lifestyle far outside the paradigm of Modern Orthodoxy, and not one that liberal Jewish parents should be comfortable with even though their teens are absolutely PERFECT for this trip.
And I couldn’t help but suspect…this trip and this insidious name…it sure sounds suspiciously like the kind of thing only a malevolent sleazebag would come up with.
So I did a little digging. Who, I wondered, would possibly have decided to start a “Kollel” program for a Modern Orthodox youth group? It sure sounds like something you-know-who would have done. Could it be?
And sure enough, it was.
NCSY Director of Regions Rabbi Baruch Lanner modeled the college program after NCSY’s high school level summer “kollel”program, which he founded and developed.
I knew I smelled something funky.
The Rosh Kollel
Here’s some possible suggestions — cause I try to be a creative problem solver. 1) Change the name, or ideally, 2) Jettison this particular trip, or at the very least, 3) Stop sending public school kids on this trip.
Or, we can have post after post over the next few years referencing “Lanner’s Kollel.” You have to admit, for an organization attempting to further inroads with “the unaffiliated,” “Kollel” is a particularly ill-suited name to have on your roster of programming, and Lanner a most unfortunate founder.
21 comments
Sweet post.
I actually agree with most of what you say about NCSY, but this one is a little bit off base, for the following reasons.
1. Modern Orthodoxy has tons of kollels- YU has five, basically every modern orthodox summer camp has one (MoKo, Lavi Kollel, various Moshavas), a bunch of communities (Torah mi-Tzion, Boca, the new Chicago one). Most of the hesder yeshivot have them, including Gush and ha-Kotel. There is no reason to let the hareidim own this term.
2. According to my friends who were advisors on Kollel over the last few summers, you could not make a minyan with the public school kids who attended.
3. If you are concerned with public school kids going to Ohr and Aish, Kollel is davka a good way to enable them to go to MO yeshivas.
4. The fact that Lanner invented a program doesn’t by itself make the program bad.
According to my friends who were advisors on Kollel over the last few summers, you could not make a minyan with the public school kids who attended.
Then you won’t be giving up that much if you exclude from this wonderful Lanner program.
If you are concerned with public school kids going to Ohr and Aish, Kollel is davka a good way to enable them to go to MO yeshivas.
How’s that?
The fact that Lanner invented a program doesn’t by itself make the program bad.
You can explain why it is wonderful to secular and liberal Jews, and I will explain why a Lanner Kollel is a really bad idea.
“If you are concerned with public school kids going to Ohr and Aish, Kollel is davka a good way to enable them to go to MO yeshivas.
How’s that?”
Public school kids who spend the summer on Kollel learning with teachers from the MO yeshivot, and making friends with the kids who will eventually go to them, are less likely to want to go to one of the ba’al tshuva yeshivas. Also, with a few summers of learning under their belt, they will get into higher level yeshivas (more Gush/KBY, less Reishit and OJ) after they graduate and be more successful when they go.
Would it really change anything for you if they renamed it “Summer Torah Learning Experience” or something?
Would it really change anything for you if they renamed it “Summer Torah Learning Experience” or something?
Yes. Consider the circumstances…Lanner’s founding, why HE chose that name…yes. A name change is appropriate. You make an interesting point, and if these teens are restricted to the MO learning, it is a good one. BUT. I have no reason to believe these teens aren’t exposed to more haredi institutions and ideologies.
The United States of America was named by a bunch of slave owning, sexist white men. By your logic we should have to change this name too right?
Rick, Baruch Lanner was not the same caliber as the Framers of this country. Now, I know you may counter that what he did was EVEN GREATER since HE MADE THEY FRUM, but that’s just frummie nonsense.
Sally Hemings might disagree with you on that one, DK. Did you know that not only was she Jefferson’s 15 year old “child” lover, but that she was also his half-sister-in-law? Of course you did; you’re a history buff. The founding fathers were not moral paragons. Rick’s assessment seems to be in order.
Jefferson did things we don’t do today. But if Jefferson were alive today, he would not do such things. People need to be judged to some degree within the times and morality that they lived. Let me ask you this: If we had the choice to day between a Jefferson who grew up in today’s world, who would you pick of the three to be president of the U.S.? Jefferson, W. Bush, or Baruch Lanner?
“People need to be judged to some degree within the times and morality that they lived.”
Oh, so you mean cultural relativism?
I can answer Jefferson for you, and we can see what tangent that really ill-fitted comparison can take us — that is, if you think it adds any weight to the discussion.
Oh, so you mean cultural relativism?
No. I mean perspective. It’s not as radical as cultural relativism.
The jury is still out on Sally Hemmings. A lot of conflicting data; DNA evidence inconclusive.
By any means, one should refrain from equalling and equating one felony to another, particularly one at hindsight perceived as a felony [Sally Hemings, as far as literature tells me, presumably was the half-sister of Jefferson's late wife, not of Jefferson himself] lest one wants to end up on the same low level of rhetorics that defenders of totalitarian systems use by pointing out the flaws of other totalitarian systems.
No, Sarah/froylein. Rick and Halfsours are right. Clearly since Jefferson (may have) slept with someone he wasn’t supposed to, the Orthodox Union has every right to name programs and awards after Lanner and his enablers..
“the Orthodox Union has every right to name programs and awards after Lanner and his enablers..”
That wasn’t the topic of this post, and that wasn’t what we were talking about.
U make snarky comments like naming the award rather than answering sour and rick. How are our founding fathers who certaing weren’t moral in some aspects any different from lanner? We should chang the name of our country!
Also, u say people should be judged based on the morality of the time? Then why do you hate the people at the time of the Gemara who were for sure ahead of their time in morality inmany ways? Or al least judge their stories for the knowledge of the time! Why? Because you hate them and will find any excuse even if it makes u a hypocrat.
“You make an interesting point, and if these teens are restricted to the MO learning, it is a good one. BUT. I have no reason to believe these teens aren’t exposed to more haredi institutions and ideologies.”
I can’t guarantee that they are getting exposed exclusively to MO learning. But they are getting exposed to the same learning that MO kids get when they go to Israel for the year. The rebbeim all spend their years teaching in those yeshivas, my impression is that pretty much each shana alef yeshiva has at least one Ram on Kollel’s staff (makes a lot of sense for recruiting). Additionally, Rav Schachter and Rav Twersky from YU spend part of their summers there.
Basically, Kollel is an incubator/recruiting ground for the Shana Alef yeshivas and the YU beis medresh. To the extent that those have hareidi influences, kollel has hareidi influences and public school kids who go on it will be exposed to hareidi institutions and ideologies, just like participants from modern orthodox families. That being said, I still think its pretty clear that going on Kollel highly decreases the chances of public school kids getting mixed up with Aish and Ohr.
As for the name, if I were ever to rise to the level where I had that sort of decision making power (unlikely!), I guess I would change the name to make you feel better. Still don’t think its a big deal though.
Reluctant Advisor, you wrote,
To the extent that those have hareidi influences, kollel has hareidi influences and public school kids who go on it will be exposed to hareidi institutions and ideologies, just like participants from modern orthodox families.
But they aren’t the same. Aish and OS dominate that world. And less liberal and secular Jewish parents would be as tolerant ultra-Orthodox ideology than MO parents.
As for the name, if I were ever to rise to the level where I had that sort of decision making power (unlikely!), I guess I would change the name to make you feel better. Still don’t think its a big deal though.
Look at it in context. Haredization; Tropp and Stolper Award.
Granny wrote,
U make snarky comments like naming the award rather than answering sour and rick.
Rick and I are having a very nice discussion, Granny. Your and my discussion is probably not going to be as nice. As for sour, she is Halfsours. Only half.
Also, u say people should be judged based on the morality of the time? Then why do you hate the people at the time of the Gemara who were for sure ahead of their time in morality inmany ways? Or al least judge their stories for the knowledge of the time!
I don’t hate the people of the Gemara, Granny. They were ahead of there time in many ways. The problem is those people TODAY who think they are ahead of every time in every way. Think about it, and feel free to write, “Oh…that makes a lot of sense, actually.” Alternatively, feel free to stick with the ol’ “YOU JUST HATE FRUM PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU COULDN’T HACK IT WHEN YOU WERE FRUM!!!!!”
Because you hate them and will find any excuse even if it makes u a hypocrat.
Isn’t a hypocrat that animal that Harry Potter was flying around on?
Although I may disagree with DK on the award, Granny dont speak for me, DK is right about that.
However DK i do reiterate and agree with Granny, you have to back off your argument here. The crimes for the founding fathers were as bad if not worse then what stoppler did and the name changing should be across the board or not at all. Lanner was a creep and should have gotten much worse than he got, but for how long will NCSY be required to suffer the sins of the past?
Rick,
NCSY will continue to suffer from the Lanner years as long as they do not change their behavior from the Lanner years. Attempting to whitewash their own history and pretend it was the work of one man, deleting references on Wikipedia, awarding enablers, are all behaviors all too similar to why this problem festered in the first place.
Essentially, the OU and NCSY need to see this beyond abuse itself, but of a culture of denial and wrong priorities.
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