Haredi World Stunned — Boy Molested at Mikvah
January 5, 2009 Chabad, Failed Messiah, Sexuality
A good place to bring your kids?
CROWN HEIGHTS [CHI] — At 4:12pm, Friday, Erev Shabbos, a child called the Shomrim hotline asking for help. The child stated that he was just molested at the Empire Shtibel Mikvah and the perpetrator was still in the Mikvah.
The hassidim need to stop parading their naked kids around showing off their ruchnius tucheses, put their pants back on, and stop this homoerotic prone nonsense once and for all.
And they wonder why the Vilna Gaon banned the hasidim. Yes, yes, I know. Because he was a mean person WHO LISTENED TO LOSHAN HORA!!!!
Related: Zeek explains that the mikvah is where the action happens.
57 comments
What does ruchnius mean?
I think I told you a few months ago – Jay Michaelson wrote an article for Zeek (back when they had their own website and you could actually find the old articles) about the prevalence of homoerotic activity in Hasidic bathhouses.
This doesn’t go on in Misnagdische mikvot? The men and boys don’t go in together?
The Vilna Gaon – another example of Hareidi cognitive dissonance. The Hasidim all think he was a bastard, but still they rely upon his commentary. It doesn’t beat my favorite – the Shulchan Oruch is definitive and we have to abide by everything it says, until it says something we don’t like – but it’s close.
Here is it, but I had to go through Google to get it (I think this happened the last time, too; I think S/F found it through Google): http://www.zeek.net/jay_0407.shtml
I think I’ll post it in Shmarya’s thread as well.
A 15 yr old teenager “child”.
Why exactly do chasidim need to stop homoerotic “nonsense”? Are you homophobic?
Jeff, link posted, and “ruchnius” means spiritual.
mohammed, I have no problem with men doing what men do in bathhouses, but there are laws about bringing in underage teens and boys to such activities, unfortunately.
Oh, thanks.
Is it less of a problem in Misnagdic mikvot?
Go look at Shmarya’s thread again – our friend “Archie Bunker” had some choice things to say to me after I posted the link.
I was just in a Korean bathhouse where practically every woman had their child in tow. Should that be stopped as well?
There’s no law against parents bringing their kids to nudist beaches.
Halfsours, I do not recommend that Korean women bring their daughters to a chassidic mens’ mikvah.
mohammed, I wasn’t saying there needs to be a change to the law.
It’s not like with metziza b’peh, which should absolutely be made illegal, with a minimum prison sentence for those convicted.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with bathhouses/saunas nor with children attending. It depends on the situation.
For the nudist/naturist people, who say they have a very low instance of child molestation (but intergenerational sex is another matter), it would be nothing new. As long as all involved adhere to the dogma that nudity is of no concern and it isn’t about sex, whatever.
For those not of that stripe, separation between genders is usually assumed, men and boys, women and girls. However, most under the age of consent people attending do so with a familial authority figure such as an older brother or father.
But a mikvah? It’s supposed to be a personal religious matter. Dunk and pray. Multiple people should not be a concern since it should be one person at a time. Someone being there to make sure you dunk X times and vocalize every single bit of every prayer is to turn it from a personal cleansing of the mind and spirit into a thing required from without and a burden not an enjoyed exercise.
If people want to hit the sauna first, let them wear swim trunks there, dip at the mikvah after, dress, head home or to synagogue.
HalfSours, it’s different with the Hareidim. The enforce gender segregation at an early age, the kids are never properly socialized and they become obsessed with sex as adults. The end result is that we get Hareidi rabbis who can’t seem to talk about much else.
I think much of the homoerotic behavior stems from the fact that their emotional development becomes arrested at the adolescent level. Many may not be inherently gay, but never progress beyond the adolescent experimentation stage.
Suite potato is right; I’ve read much the same thing about people who practice naturalism. Reportedly, they don’t have problems with the sorts of things with which you’d assume they’d have problems. Even the adolescents supposedly aren’t becoming promiscuous as a result, plus they tend to develop respect for boundaries, positive body images, etc. Just the opposite of what religious authorities would have one believe.
DK, you know that a bris might not be kosher without metzitza, as nasty as it sounds it is required.
DK, you know that a bris might not be kosher without metzitza, as nasty as it sounds it is required.
I would like nothing more than for the frum community to insist that it has to be done, or you may as well not circumcise your kids.
Well, you could use a tube which what alot mohels do.
There are certain cases where there is concern about some transmitted diseases. but I read this online
“This question was brought to Rav Yosef Shalom Eliashiv, shlit’a, one of the foremost Poskim in Israel. His answer was to have the child take a blood test to check for these diseases. If the test results showed no AIDS, then Metzitza should be performed by mouth.”
Proving there are precautions to take, but it is a safe procedure.
There are certain cases where there is concern about some transmitted diseases. but I read this online
This is fact. Children have died because of herpes transmitted through metziza b’peh. You are casting doubt on documented fact.
Only AIDS? No. Herpes kills infants, or more frequently, the swelling of the brain causes permanent brain damage.
Eliashiv’s statement doesn’t prove dick.
I doubt metziza b’peh would make kids sick. The whol epurpose of metziza b’peh is for health reasons.
I doubt metziza b’peh would make kids sick. The whol epurpose of metziza b’peh is for health reasons.
The Talmud is WRONG, “face”. DEADLY wrong.
there have been alot of ppl who scientificly prove that Torah is wrong, but in the end science matches perfectly with Torah. For example scientists used to beleive the world was flat while the Torah says it’s round.
These tough economic times separate the men from the boys. Except in the Brooklyn Charedi Mikvahs where it seems its bringing them closer together.
scientists used to beleive the world was flat while the Torah says it’s round.
“Scientists” never believed that; uneducated people used to. A spherical earth is actually a very old idea.
And, as I recall, the Torah describes the earth as a circle – not a sphere.
Now, what about the rabbis who thought lice arose spontaneously from dirt, or the Rambam, who argued that the sun revolves around the earth?
Jeff, its not so poshut…
How is it “not so poshut,” face?
well for one the sun revolves around the earth, you just cant say when one thing is revoloving around the other which is revolving and which is stationary, its all about perception. as for spontaneous creation, the whole universe was created something from nothing!!! If G-d can make a donkey talk why wouldn’t he be able to make mice from dirt????? David you obviously went to a novice yeshiva in your frum days if you can’t grasp these concepts.
If G-d can make a donkey talk why wouldn’t he be able to make mice from dirt?????
It isn’t that he can’t. It’s that he didn’t. And the rabbis claiming he did does not make it true. You are an idol worshiper if you believe this, because you value the words of rabbis over the imprint of God.
well for one the sun revolves around the earth, you just cant say when one thing is revoloving around the other which is revolving and which is stationary, its all about perception
No, that is not how it was understood at all. It was understood that the earth was stationary, mice are born of dirt, etc., etc.
Stuff that we now know is false.
The gmarra was written by rabbi with Ruach Hakodesh, shich makes it the word of G-D! You are just being ignorant and never learned in a frum school or else you would no these things!
The gmarra was written by rabbi with Ruach Hakodesh, shich makes it the word of G-D!
Bad answer, face. You’re just another fundamentalist who can’t face the truth. The truth is, the gemorrah is often wrong on science. Even Rambam’s son admitted that.
i’m not mentalist I’m actually ver openminded. but like my rebbe in OS said sometimes ppl are so openminded there brains fall out!
but like my rebbe in OS said sometimes ppl are so openminded there brains fall out!
Well. I guess we’ve been told.
and his response to ppl like YOU who would say we are being brainwashed is that sometimes shmutzdicke things need a bit of washing!
go to college, face.
been there done that. took a year off for the center program in OS, never went/looked back. Maybe you should go to college next time!
your spelling is atrocious. Did they get you after a JLE tour? Which college were you attending?
i went to York U in toronto. I went on winter break to JLE and stayed. lost my tuition for the semester but it was worth it
how much did you lose? How much more schooling do you have?
2500 bucks, around.
I have 2 semesters left to get my BSc in Biology if i ever want to get it, which I don’t. I have a pretty good job, married kids. Further proof that your theory that being BT stunts your opportunities for success is nonsense!
What is your “pretty good job’?
online fundrasing for a jewish organization
How long have you been frum? Do you miss your friends?
email/social networking campaigns.
I’m frum 4 years and realize that I can’t really hang out with old friends. Don’t care cuz our interests and goals are very different anyway and wouldn’t enjoy eachothers company. I sent a long email explaining myself and everybody understood, so its all good.
Do you find that your new friends are as close as your old friends? are you close with your cousins and aunts/uncles?
Is there anything you learned at Ohr Somayach that you disagree with?
I went into OS willing to accept the yoke of Torah learning I basically took in everything I learned and don’t disagree with it. I’m not close with family (not frum, no common interests/goals) but i’m married with kids making a new family
Most of us are not happy if we are estranged from family and friends. And baal teshuvahs are on some ways on the fringe of the FFB community. They have no roots or close family and friends outside of spouse and children.
Shouldn’t you at least reestablish ties to your extended family?
not true. Nobody wants a relationship with someone thy can’t relate to on an intelectual level also lifestyle differences are far too vast. its also very easy for a BT to integrate with FFBs, we’re all shomer torah and mitzvos, regardless of what we were born as. FFBs respect BTs more than other FFBs because it says A FFB can never stand where a BT does. FFBs recognize this and BTs are not better than FFBS but BTs kids will one day be FFBs and FFBs and BTs will integrate with eachother. thats REAL family.
how many times a day on average do you type the words Ohr Somayach?
You will always be a ben niddah to the haredim. Not on a higher level except in one specific way.
i’m not a ben niddah. my mother otld me i was conceived on her wedding night and she went to mikvah before her wedding. so i’m not a mamzer
You are not ready for synthesis. One day you may want to go more “Modern.” If you want to talk at that time, I will try to be there for you. But try to respect the parameters of this blog, and don’t be a nudnik.
i asked a shaylah about it
The gmarra was written by rabbi with Ruach Hakodesh
See, that’s my beef with Chabad, Ohr Sameach, and all those other insta-Frummie programs. They claim to be teaching you all about Judaism, but there’s no comprehensive effort to give you the whole story.
This is why, with the exception of the rare genius type, most of the BT types whom I meet are extremely ill-informed.
For the record, face: Rabbi did not write the Gemara.
The Mishna was redacted by Rabbi Judah the Prince. The Gemara, better known (outside your little Ortho-ghetto) as the Talmud Bavli, was redacted several centuries later by Ravina and Rav Ashi.
Actually, they just compiled the shorthand version of it. Most of the text that you see today in the Wilna-Romm edition was redacted over the next two centuries by the Sevora’im.
Me? I dropped out of Yeshiva during my teenage years and have yet to regret the decision.
Hey, Sholom – We have a Lubavitcher-turned-Breslover hanging around here lately who told me, when I asserted that Hareidi Judaism claims that the rabbis have a “pipeline to God”, that I’ve been fed Christian propaganda masquerading as Judaism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbNjzXHkoqE
If you have the time and inclination to set him straight, have at it.
Jeff, don’t worry about it; there even are jokes in Yiddish exemplifying your assertion. The concept of divine revelation was something Christianity adopted from Judaism; but it was the Christian take on messianism that eventually shaped Jewish concepts of revelation and salvation into more concrete patterns. The respective theologies have become interdependent.
homoerotic nonesense? you stupid goy! you dont know what your talking about! you’ve never been to the mikvah! its a religous, holy experience, there is nothing like it in the world. and you dont walk around naked, people wear towels except when they privately go into the mikvah, by themselves. sometimes a pervert gets in and messes around but this is not what is supposed to happen, nor is it a common thing. go to the mikvah and then youll know what im talking about. when i forst went i felt so pure i didnt want to leave a put my foot on the ground because i felt it would ruin the holiness. and i first went when i was 13 and i was alone and never molested by anyone. i now go everyday because it is such a great experience. i went to the website you had a picture from and thats nothing like what a mikeh is like! you stupid apikoros, burn in hell!
oy gott i just found out what metzitza b’peh is. that is so disgusting it should be outlawed by the state gvernment because judaism doesnt allow it already. that is so disgusting and wrong.
you stupid apikoros, burn in hell!
Welcome home, DK!
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