Jews and the Larger Mass Immigration Issues
January 11, 2009 Immigration, Jewish Community, VDARE
“The question taxpayers keep asking is ‘why should we pay for services for those who have broken the law to get here?’ They should not, nor should they be forced to be the Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) and School District of the world. This is evidenced in every poll I have seen indicating that every ethnic group is opposed to illegal immigration and supports enforcement of the law.”– Michael D. Antonovich, L.A. County Supervisor
“No truly effective comprehensive immigration reform bill passed in the 109th Congress because the entire immigration debate was saddled by proposals to enact a mass amnesty and reward those who have broken the law.” — Dan Stein, President of FAIR
VDARE has posted three separate articles, the first reviewing my original article and the subsequent ones responding to comments on my post. The dialogue on my original post itself has not gone as well as it did at first, but it was quite instructive. More on that later.
It seems to me that VDARE wants to discuss the immigration issue with the Jewish community specifically because it is disproportionately Jews, both overtly Jewish, and other ecumenical but still heavily Jewish organizations and media outlets that preempt a fair and comprehensive hearing on these matters. This is not to claim that Jews are solely or mostly responsible for the corporate pressures driving today’s immigration levels, as high immigration levels of populations resisting assimilation are causing untold problems in many European countries that have very few Jews. Rather, it is to say that in the U.S., Jews and Jewish groups remain an obstacle to change, and are often shrill and reactive to concerned citizens agitating for more restrictive immigration policies and for existing policies to be effectively enforced.
When Jews lead or contribute to a hostile environment that prevents a fair and comprehensive discussion about the exorbitant costs and severe downsides of current mass immigration levels, this is not conducive to responsible policy evaluation. I know all too well how social-liberal and far-Left Jews will scream nasty names at you for publicly questioning any aspect of immigration levels and populations, no matter how legitimate and pressing your concerns.
Firstly, we need to frame the question properly to our co-religionists.
I would ask the question like this: Is this a good time for mass immigration?
The answer is an unequivocal “no.” We are in a period of massive unemployment. Seeking a greater labor supply at this time is absolutely absurd, and cruel to our working-class countrymen. We already suffer from an acute and increasing labor surplus. And it is probably only going to get worse, perhaps much worse.
There are plenty of other reasons to object to mass immigration. The list is so long…but employment issues alone in today’s devolving economy suffice to warrant something approaching a moratorium on mass immigration, or at least, it presents an opportune time for reevaluation of current policies.
And that is legal immigration. That defense offered for amnesty or amnesty-like policies for illegal immigrants is a mind-blowing chutzpah. Maddeningly, there are Jews and Jewish groups who actually claim on our communal behalf that illegal immigration somehow parallels are own legal immigrant past.
Even according to the very best possible interpretation for continuing to allow mass illegal immigration, or even legal immigration, Jews gain nothing. Today, that’s the most positive thing you could possibly argue.
That is why social-left Jewish organizations resort to the inaccurate platitude of, “We are a nation of immigrants,” and drivel about “the strengths of diversity.” It translates into nothing tangibly positive, because those offering such platitudes can’t really think of anything to offer that is tangibly positive.
But nothing tangibly positive is the best and most dubious of possibilities. Other much more likely outcomes, as suggested by the highlighted statistics on VDARE, based on the ADL’s own statistics, point to something much less positive than nothing. And again, that is excluding all of the problems that the nation in its entirety faces from continued mass immigration, problems that must never be excluded from the discussion. And these problems are severe and growing, despite insistence to the contrary, or rather, insistence that such problems not be discussed because to do so is to “cross the line.”
But back to the “diversity” issue. What do Jews really mean when we tout the supposed greatness of ever-greater ethnic diversity?
What it really means is, “We’re still resentful and fearful of even the faintest whiff of nationalism emanating from whites because we have post-traumatic Holocaust syndrome.”
What we also really mean is, “We think increased diversity will make Jews safer.”
Perhaps, in the early sixties, this made some sense from a paranoid communal perspective. That’s why we pushed for it, right? Race in the U.S. was predominantly comprised and defined as white or black back then, with a few Native Americans and others, to be sure…but mostly white or a minority of blacks. And then there were the Jews…who after WWII did not feel safe or comfortable in this unique category among Christian whites. Immigration was a way to mix things up a bit, and become less and less the one minority group that was different.
Things are certainly more heterogeneous now. And now the situation has changed. We can’t tolerate those who continue to react to the Holocaust while pretending it’s about a 60s-style love of multiculturalism. It never was really about that for the Jews. No doubt, it was very unfortunate from a communal perspective that the U.S. closed the doors to the Jews in the 20s. It was horrific from a moral perspective that the doors were not reopened to European Jewish refugees during the WWII period. I don’t contest any of that. In at least the latter case, neither do most Americans.
So. Do you want what is happening TODAY in Europe to increasingly happen here as well because of bitterness about the past? Do you want to risk losing the southwest to a different nation and culture? Should we ignore the high-risk behavior that comes from tolerating an illegal population not personally invested in the country they reside?
If we Jews want to stop Muslim immigration, we are going to have to cut a deal with those who want to change immigration levels generally. We have to seek and set policy according to realpolitik, not irrational fears fronted by fanciful, universalistic ideals we ourselves helped construct in large part to effectively advocate for our particularist, ethnocentric concerns.
Do we want to preempt a potentially very unpleasant future, or to perennially protest a past we cannot change?
The exchange with the VDARE readers has been helpful, in terms of elucidating a potential problem that we few outspoken “affiliated” Jews seeking immigration reform are going to have to contend with. The reality is, there is a small fringe of anti-immigration activists who are concurrently infuriated at the Jews, and the liberal Jewish community consistently points to their rage as proof that the anti-immigration foes of today are the same people who were once specifically against Jewish immigration, hence justification for their continued pro-immigration policies.
It’s cutting off your long nose to spite your face.
Because the polls suggest something strikingly different than an anti-immigration sentiment significantly linked to anti-Jewish one. The vast majority of Americans are against illegal immigration, and want a strong, secure southern border. Most also want strict limits on legal immigration, even if not a moratorium. This is what we have to explain to our fellow American Jews. The vast majority of Americans should be and must be trusted as harboring goodwill towards other American citizens, including towards ourselves. Anti-illegal immigration today is not a fringe sentiment in any way, shape, or form. Rather, it is a pluralist sentiment.
Specific concerns about Islamic immigration coupled with general concerns about labor surplus and continued worker wage and benefits decline make this an excellent time to demand that moderate Jews reevaluate their current, if tepid, support for mass immigration generally. When hysterical Jews panic and attempt to prove their hysteria is founded by invoking something a fringe group or online commenter wrote, put a hand on his shoulder (not for the benefit of the Jew screaming, but for the sake of influencing the other Jews listening), show them the polls, and only then show them the problems.
This is my suggested strategy for influencing Jews to rethink their position on U.S. immigration policies.
57 comments
I wish that I had seen this post, when I logged on a few moments back. I apologize most sincerely for assuming that you were avoiding addressing my concerns. Thank you very much for writing about this with the respect and attention that you did.
Jenny, no problem. It took some time, I had explained that I was working on this in an earlier post. I felt it was important to make sure I expressed things properly, and I don’t have the benefit of editors.
Thanks for understanding.
subsequet ones both ref the same link
Link fixed, thanks.
Mass immigration occurs not because left wing Jews have convinced policymakers that it is a good thing. It clearly prejudices the working classes. Policymakers are not that stupid as to take left wing Jews seriously.
Mass immigration occurs because from the point of view of the immigrants it is a good thing and there is no practical and humane way in today’s world to stop it.
“The question taxpayers keep asking is ‘why should we pay for services for those who have broken the law to get here?’ ”
Because if we did not pay for these services, those who have broken the law to get here will break more laws to pay for these services. An illegal immigrant who denied food stamps will not shrug his shoulders (even if French) and go home. He will instead look for a five finger discount.
I am totally convinced by arguments that mass immigration should be prevented however I have yet to hear any convincing proposal as to how it can be.
Policymakers are not that stupid as to take left wing Jews seriously.
Hey!
Policymakers are not that stupid as to take left wing Jews seriously.
Hey!
Well, they’re not. They get quoted only to justify actions after the fact as in, “look who says we’re right! Nyah-nyah!”
And Reb Leibish is right, people immigrate for their own reasons. The problem is that some think it is a really good idea and others don’t. Who’s right?
Both.
No immigrant who can be shown to have taken part in an anti-American political group, especially one that advocates terrorism, murder, etc. should be allowed in, unless they’re being taken in for asylum after being betrayed by that same group, and for the purpose of intelligence gathering, and not without proper assimilation attention to ingratiate them.
The youth, especially males, of every human society are most prone to disaffection, cultural estrangement, and gravitation towards hostility to the bosom that bore them forth. Witness many young men raised as Jews who make tasteless jokes about Jews now and profess to not believe in G-d anymore.
It is not different with any other religion. The majority of bad-mouthing of Christians comes from lapsed Christians.
There are two options then. Either recapture and embrace of an archetype you believe the older generation has failed at which is the Ba’al Teshuva phenomenon of becoming more frum than thou (and for Muslim youths more militantly Islamic than thou). The other is cultural abandonment altogether and adoption of different and sometimes totally opposed ways to differentiate oneself from what one was before.
This is something of the latter to some degree. Like Stryper was for Christianity (glam rock, horrible lyrics, inept musicianship, great way to embrace religion better than church they thought).
The former is… well, the thing we should fear in immigration. Those who in ennui and alienation have redoubled their cultural effort to go “hardcore” and not peacefully, but in the mold of the those who dominate the “hardcore” Muslim scene today: Islamic supremacists.
Policymakers listen to whomever is waving money in their face, what’s more, there has been an alliance formed between the corporate elites and the far left. While the republicans get knockd for pointing it out, George Soros, extremely wealthy, has brokered this alliance, and not because he cares about social justice either. His game is divide and conquer. Look at Rahm Emanual, both his parents are leftists, and he is in the pockets of the corporate elite. He was the man who pushed through NAFTA with Bill Clinton, and he advocates selling up our infrastructure and resources.
Extremists of both sides are working together, each for their own particular agenda to destroy the rights and freedoms of America.
Illegal aliens are being allowed to displace citizens, so as to destroy wage standards, workplace and environmental protections. Democrats in congress, who are corrupt, like Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy (and a lot more) no longer pretend to represent their citizen constituents. In California, they are working to push poor and middle class citizens out of the state, by worsening conditions, while counting on illegals to expand the population, in the hopes of getting more representation in congress, at the expense of the rest of the country.
The mayors of Los Angeles, and San Francisco have violated the US Constitution openly, not just by being sanctuary cities, but by establishing treaties with foreign countries. Los Angeles with Mexico, and San Francisco with China. Both mayors have spoken about this publically and been quoted in the press, including the LA Times and the SF Bay Chronicle.
Illegal aliens are not interested in becoming American, but in making a quick profit, and demanding welfare subsidies to allow them to send their wages to their home countries or to buy luxury items.. the profits of which go to China, Latin America or wherever they are manufactured.
This is NOT the same as previous economic downturns. Our government, under democrat as well as republican administrations have given our jobs away, as well as important infrastructure. Illegal aliens are causing state, local and federal taxes to skyrocket, and citizens are breaking under the burden. We are expected to subsidize wealthy foreign countries, at the same time that we are shouldering an enormous debt. We are NOT a wealthy country any more, yet foreign entities and countries keep telling us that we are wealthy and must keep paying.
If you wouldn’t run your home in this insane manner, you shouldn’t allow your country to be run into the ground like this either.
We need more citizens to put the fear of being thrown out of office, into the minds of their elected leaders. They need to hear anger on the subject of their negligence in allowing illegals to remain in this country, not enforcing our immigration laws, and allowing the displacement and burdening of the citizenry.
I read an article today that stated that even among Mexicans, three out of five aren’t religious any longer. There is a strong movement of radical Marxists in the pro-illegal alien community, and they are indoctrinating them. That’s the reason why there is such a huge antisemitic tendency in the illegal alien community, and no amount of ADL huckstering on their behalf is going to change that.
Jews who continue to support illegal aliens, amnesty and an open border are painting themselves into a corner, because while the illegals and their paymasters will take all the support the ADL are willing to give, they will be turned on and targeted when they are no longer needed.
Policymakers listen to whomever is waving money in their face, what’s more, there has been an alliance formed between the corporate elites and the far left.
Too true.
We are NOT a wealthy country any more
The sooner we internalize this, the better.
They need to hear anger on the subject of their negligence in allowing illegals to remain in this country, not enforcing our immigration laws, and allowing the displacement and burdening of the citizenry.
And we need to have solidarity with Americans in those states particularly overrun.
This is NOT the same as previous economic downturns. Our government, under democrat as well as republican administrations have given our jobs away, as well as important infrastructure.
The cost of the Iraq War was particularly egregious, and the astronomical level of corruption was a contributing factor.
Jews who continue to support illegal aliens, amnesty and an open border are painting themselves into a corner, because while the illegals and their paymasters will take all the support the ADL are willing to give, they will be turned on and targeted when they are no longer needed.
It makes zero sense. All justifications are rooted in past grievances, because there is no current logic for these policies.
DK, I appreciate your concern about the growth of Islamist extremism and the relationship between immigration and development of Islamist extremism. These are important issues. However, I suggest looking at some sources dealing with immigration in the American context. The experience of assimilation in London, for example, has not been identical to that of NYC.
Roib writes:
“I am totally convinced by arguments that mass immigration should be prevented however I have yet to hear any convincing proposal as to how it can be.”
In open, capitalist, economies immigration increases as labor demand increases and decreases as labor demand decreases. See Isaac Hourwich’s, “Immigration and Labor” (1912). The entire book is available online at Google Books.
Jenny Writes:
“[T]here has been an alliance formed between the corporate elites and the far left.”
Have you been to any demonstrations over the past say, fifteen years? The far left–anarchists, communists, etc.–are definitely not in alliance with corporate elites. They are against NAFTA just like the paleocons. They even use similar (anti-capitalist) rhetoric. Extremists on the left and right both rail against what they call globalism (hard right) or globalization (hard left). Jenny’s comments exemplify this.
The arguments she makes and the rhetoric she uses are almost identical to those used against Jews, Italians, Catholics, Russians and others who were part of “new immigration” wave in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. These arguments were rehashed from the critiques made of the “early immigrants” (Dutch, Germans and Irish) who arrived in the eighteenth century. Seriously, check out Hourwich’s “Immigration and Labor”. It was written almost a hundred years ago and it is eye-opening to see how little the arguments have changed.
The idea that immigrants of the past did not flock to communities dominated by their countrymen and countrywomen, that they did not create media in their own languages (newspapers, books, etc.), is simply not supported by the evidence. Take a look at the images of early American cities with storefront signs in Yiddish, Polish, Italian, Russian, etc. (not English) take a look at the names of the newspapers that were popular in immigrant communities, take a look at the languages they were published in.
This process of assimilation has been going on for a long, long, time. Critics of immigration said Jews would not assimilate. They said we were not interested in becoming American, we were only interested in making a “quick profit” and that increasing numbers of us were not even religious, instead informed and guided by foreign ideologies like Marxism, anarchism and communism. Sound familiar?
“We are NOT a wealthy country any more, yet foreign entities and countries keep telling us that we are wealthy and must keep paying.”
U.S. Gross Domestic Product is about fourteen and a half trillion dollars. That’s $14,500 billion. This places the U.S. among the wealthiest countries of the world.
Could things be better? Sure. But I don’t think protectionism is the answer.
“But I don’t think protectionism is the answer.”
Protectionism is the wisest answer.
DK, I doubt most American Jews would view “FAIR” favorably, especially if they see this;
What is FAIR?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G06SoMl8eBk
The Western Region Representative of FAIR, until recently, was the openly neo-Nazi, Joe Turner. Turner was the founder and long-time leader of a group which developed a reputation for allowing neo-Nazis to participate in its rallies.
http://www.fairus.org/site/Pag....._mar07nl12
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/.....r-at-fair/
http://www.splcenter.org/intel.....jsp?aid=16
“The question taxpayers keep asking is ‘why should we pay for services for those who have broken the law to get here?’ They should not, nor should they be forced to be the Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) and School District of the world. This is evidenced in every poll I have seen indicating that every ethnic group is opposed to illegal immigration and supports enforcement of the law.”– Michael D. Antonovich, L.A. County Supervisor
B.S!
“The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received.”
http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/spe.....mented.pdf
Francine J. Lipman
Professor of Law
Courses Taught: Federal Income Taxation and Corporate Tax
http://www.chapman.edu/law/faculty/lipman.asp
“Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States’ economy. The widespread belief is that illegal aliens cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is undeniably false. [E]very empirical study of illegals’ economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . .: undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services. Moreover, undocumented immigrants contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy”
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/pa....._id=881584
As far as polls go, let me guess; THESE polls are “skewed” or otherwise don’t reflect the true wishes of the electorate, right?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....e=politics
http://www.gallup.com/poll/268.....rants.aspx
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05.....p&_r=1
Realpolitik = Will Growing Number of “Latino” Voters Turn Texas into a Blue State?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story.....amp;page=1
What happens when the GOP loses Texas AND Florida because “Hispanic” voters swing state elections to the democrats???
You state you are concerned that the US will somehow lose the southwest to an “alien nation and culture”. This is sheer non-sense as Mexican-Americans are as AMERICAN as anyone else – even Canadian immigrants.
You are fighting a battle in a war you have already lost. As I pointed out before;
“Hispanics” are now 1/4 of ALL births in the USA (though “only” 2/3 of USA “Hispanics” are of Mexican ethnicity)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....03397.html
This is happening while white birth rates plummet.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....mp;ei=5040
Ben Franklin:
“…Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion…”
http://bc.barnard.columbia.edu.....tions.html
America never was and never will be a white nation. America has been multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-lingual, multi-religious, etc since the FIRST DAY European ILLEGAL ALIENS set foot upon this continent!
That said; I have NEVER met a USA born Mexican-American that didn’t speak English as their first language – unless they were raised outside the country – NEVER!
And no, this is NOT the “new world”! In fact, it’s a very ancient world with Mexica written history spanning 30 centuries alone!
Illegal immigration has been a burning issue around here since 1492. Thus, I seriously doubt the controversy over the issue will cease anytime soon – especially in a NATION OF IMMIGRANTS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ttDUGM-1mU
Christopher Columbus = FIRST “illegal alien”
“The anti-German school laws were declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1923″
http://www.pbs.org/speak/seato.....glishonly/
“Although the “intelligence tests” conducted by the U.S. Army during World War I seemed to confirm the intellectual inferiority of Slavic, Jewish, and southern European immigrants, the findings reflected a generational phenomenon.”
http://www.answers.com/topic/u.....-education
“These new arrivals from Italy and other Eastern European nations frightened the native population, as the Irish and Germans had before”
http://www.cjd.org/paper/truth.html
Bottom line; given how vociferously you hate brown people – maybe you should consider relocating somewhere else – Canada perhaps? BTW VDARE is the biggest joke of all, an anti immigrant site run by stinking immigrants like peter brimelow, illana mercer, james fulford …
P.S. If speaking Spanish makes me “Hispanic”, does speaking English make me an “Anglo”???
Not that I think you’ll post this, but hey, I’m sure the inherent truths here just burn you up – TOUGH!
Temoc, your post was trapped in the spam file because of so many links.
Anyway, if that is true about FAIR’s behavior, that’s too bad.
DK { 01.12.09 at 11:18 pm }
Jews who continue to support illegal aliens, amnesty and an open border are painting themselves into a corner, because while the illegals and their paymasters will take all the support the ADL are willing to give, they will be turned on and targeted when they are no longer needed.
DK: It makes zero sense. All justifications are rooted in past grievances, because there is no current logic for these policies.
David, my take on this has long been that the wealthy Jews–neocon, left, and farther left–who have for years defended Open Borders policies and amnesty do not do so based on their proferred reasons. That’s just so much sophistry. Their real motivation is the same as for the wealthy gentiles promoting the same policies: Having an unlimited supply of cheap, cowed, non-black help, and engaging in tax evasion and any number of other criminal enterprises.
The real question to ask the anti-enforcement crowd is what Stanley Crouch called the “flip test.” Would you be in favor of mass immigration of poorly educated, often openly hostile populations, if they were white Scandanavians? What if instead of MEChA, we had the Nordic Student Movement of Vinland, whose founding documents had the phrase “For the Nordic Race Everything, Outside the Nordic Race Nothing.” Would schoolteachers be as sympathetic to blond-haired, blue-eyed children whose parents demanded education in Swedish, as they are to Latino children? Etc. etc. etc.
There is a sometimes naive, and sometimes simply hateful view on the Left that replacing a white supermajority by a supermajority “of color” will automatically lead to a more “just” and wealthier society. The opposite seems to be occuring at least in California.
Why bring up immigrants of a hundred years ago? We have generations and generations of hispanics here already. So it’s more helpful to look at 4th generation hispanics rather than 4th generation italians and poles if the goal is to figure out how 4th generation hispanics are assimilating.
Here is some research regarding the lack of Hispanic assimilation, all from Hispanic, leftist sociologists at UCLA or UC Irvine:
Mexican American integration slow, education stalled, study finds
“The UCLA study, released today in a Russell Sage Foundation book titled “Generations of Exclusion: Mexican Americans, Assimilation, and Race,” concludes that, unlike the descendants of European immigrants to the United States, Mexican Americans have not fully integrated by the third and fourth generation. The research spans a period of nearly 40 years.”
“The educational levels of second-generation Mexican Americans improved dramatically. But the third and fourth generations failed to surpass, and to some extent fell behind, the educational level of the second generation. Moreover, the educational levels of all Mexican Americans still lag behind the national average.” [scottynx: By the 3rd generation, descendants of turn of the century immigrants had caught up]
“Economic status improved from the first to second generation but stalled in the third and fourth generation. Earnings, occupational status and homeownership were still alarmingly low for later generations. Low levels of schooling among Mexican Americans were the main reason for lower income, occupational status and other indicators of socioeconomic status.”
“All Mexican Americans were English-proficient by the second generation. Spanish proficiency declined from the first to the fourth generation, showing that the loss of Spanish was inevitable. However, Spanish declined only gradually, and approximately 36 percent of the fourth generation spoke Spanish fluently.” [scottynx adds: Most likely the percentage of 4th generation Poles speaking polish is in the low single digits]
“Adult Mexican Americans in the third and fourth generation lived in more segregated neighborhoods than they did as youths. This was due to the high number of Latinos and immigrants moving into these neighborhoods, the researchers said.” [scottynx adds: again, the opposite of what 4th generation descendants of turn of the century immigrants experience]
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/porta.....46372.aspx
also see:
Debunking the Myth of Immigrant Criminality: Imprisonment Among First- and Second-Generation Young Men
By Rubén G. Rumbaut, Roberto G. Gonzales of UC Irvine:
“Second Generation
Incarceration rates increase significantly for all US-born coethnics without exception. That is most notable for Mexicans, whose incarceration rate increases more than eightfold to 5.9 percent among the US born; for Vietnamese (from 0.46 to 5.6 percent among the US born); and for the Laotians and Cambodians (from 0.92 percent to 7.26 percent, the highest of any group except for native blacks)…….
Thus, while incarceration rates are found to be extraordinarily low among immigrants, they are also seen to rise rapidly by the second generation. Except for the Chinese and Filipinos, the rates of all US-born Latin American and Asian groups exceed that of the referent group of non-Hispanic white natives.”
http://www.migrationinformatio.....cfm?ID=403
More Ruben G. Rumbaut on hispanic assimilation here:
http://www.communications.uci......p?key=1529
Again, these are hispanic, leftist, University of California sociologists that agree that their research shows hispanic assimilation is going badly compared to turn of the century immigration (the phrase “downward assimilation” is used in that last link).
“Protectionism is the wisest answer.”
How, specifically, is protectionism wise for the US in the year 2009? Would more Americans (and the economy as a whole) benefit by employing Americans in the textile industry at home or do more Americans (and the economy as whole) benefit from purchasing cheap textiles made in China? I suspect the latter.
I understand the appeal of looking backward to an era when the U.S. was a manufacturing powerhouse but those days are gone. The American economy has changed because the global economy has changed.
Scott, for some reason you missed the positive element of Ortiz and Telles’ findings in “Generations of Exclusion: Mexican Americans, Assimilation, and Race.” Namely,
“Linguistically, Mexican Americans assimilate into mainstream America quite well—by the second generation, nearly all Mexican Americans achieve English proficiency.”
They also admit these negative findings:
“In many domains, however, the Mexican American story doesn’t fit with traditional models of assimilation. The majority of fourth generation Mexican Americans continue to live in Hispanic neighborhoods, marry other Hispanics, and think of themselves as Mexican. And while Mexican Americans make financial strides from the first to the second generation, economic progress halts at the second generation, and poverty rates remain high for later generations. Similarly, educational attainment peaks among second generation children of immigrants, but declines for the third and fourth generations.”
I’m shocked why you did not mention *why*Ortiz and Telles found this to be the case.
HINT: It was not due to Hispanic culture or some sort of essentialist unwillingness to assimilate.
Instead:
“Telles and Ortiz identify institutional barriers as a major source of Mexican American disadvantage. Chronic under-funding in school systems predominately serving Mexican Americans severely restrains progress. Persistent discrimination, punitive immigration policies, and reliance on cheap Mexican labor in the southwestern states all make integration more difficult. The authors call for providing Mexican American children with the educational opportunities that European immigrants in previous generations enjoyed. The Mexican American trajectory is distinct—but so is the extent to which this group has been excluded from the American mainstream.”
In other words, this is a standard lefty work that blames institutional discrimination i.e. racism for the lack of assimilation. You may disagree with their conclusion but it is what it is.
To Reb Leibish { 01.12.09 at 9:58 am } who states some common sense opposition to unrestricted immigration in to the USA then writes:
“I am totally convinced by arguments that mass immigration should be prevented however I have yet to hear any convincing proposal as to how it can be.”
I reply:
America found a way to put a man on the moon, defeat Imperial Japan in a world war and this included dropping an A-bomb on Japanese cities, thus our nation can surely find a way to control immigration – particularly the immigration of Al Qaeda terrorists who like to mass murder Americans, especially Jewish Americans in America. Right now, all America lacks is the will to enact and enforce commonsense good immigration laws/policies.
I also note that most countries in the world including Israel find ways to control immigration:
Japan does it.
Singapore does it.
Hong Kong does it.
Switzerland, Finland, Norway do it.
Israel does it.
(Israel does not have 10 – 20 million illegal aliens wandering around Israel).
America before 1965 did it and we can do it again.
I would add this. Reb Leibish notes,
I have yet to hear any convincing proposal as to how it can be
We could try. That would be a good start.
Wow! This is good to see. I’m encouraged that Jews are starting to wake up and discuss the immigration invasion issue. I’m an investment consultant whose political views veer towards White Nationalism; I count Jews among both my colleagues and clients. These people are highly vulnerable, should things get ugly. And they are starting to realize it. Perhaps now Jews can stop persecuting racially-conscious Whites who for decades have been advocating for immigration reform? We can hope, but I won’t hold my breath.
Wevs1, Per your response to Roib. We are a democratic republic, with constitutional protections, rights and freedoms for our citizenry. The Constitution clearly lays out that foreign nationals, do not have the same rights as citizens, and that it is in the interest of protecting our country and our citizens, to control immigration and protect our national sovereignty. Those who argue otherwise, do so for the same reason that those who rationalized slavery did. As a democrat, it seems to me that the leaders of my party, in colluding with the far left-far right wing extremists and the corporate/foreign elites, have effectively regressed to the moral relativism that infected the party when it was the party of slavery.
As there is a sufficient labor force in the United States, if there was a true labor demand, wages would increase, as a shortage of labor would spur the increase in wages to attract citizen workers. What has been happening is the opposite. Wages declining to the point that citizen workers wages of worker wages in the early ’70s, despite the fact that the cost of living has risen dramatically. Here’s a link to a study Dr. Borjas participated in, Borjas-Grogger-Hanson, “Imperfect Substitution between Immigrants and Natives: A Reappraisal.” http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~GB.....GH2008.pdf
I’d recomend Roib and anyone else go to http://borjas.typepad.com. In the right hand column on the world respected economist from the Kennedy School of Govt, at Harvard) Dr. Borjas’ blog, you will find links to his many books, papers, studies on the subject of labor economics, a good many of which deal with immigration, especially the illegal immigration that has negatively impacted citizen workers, our economy, including the increased costs brought about by this terrible burden. Borjas cites government records/studies that back up the facts he presents.
Firstly, I refuse to allow any extremist redefine politics or parties in the US. The majority of democrats are not of the far left, nor are the majority of republicans far right. In fact, right wing and left wing are not American in nature, rather, they are European constructs. Nor is there any legitimacy to the term “paleoconservative”. It’s an attempt by neo-cons to dismiss traditional conservatism as being somehow antiquated.
I never have been a republican, I do remember a time when there wasn’t the divisiveness and hatred between the two parties that there has been since the neocons and the far left interjected themselves into our political process.
You are obviously representative of the far right or far left, which extreme doesn’t really matter, because ultimately they represent the same outcome, totalitarianism, persecution and oppression.
There is no similarity, between the economic climate of the times past, with now, not even during the great depression, because during those times past, our government hadn’t been countenancing the outsourcing of American jobs, making it impossible for those businesses who sought to keep jobs in the US, beause of incentives promoted to actually outsource. Nor are we under populated, or lacking workers of any kind. We also have severe, long term unemployment/underemployment, a huge national debt, and the glaring example of citizens who need the jobs that are being given to illegal aliens, and those brought here through the exploitation of our visa programs. There is not one legitimate justification for claiming we need foreign labor of ANY kind in the United States.
As to protests, etc.. yes, I have Wesv1, attended protests, recently and for more than 20 years. I was at the protest on Bush’s first inauguration, on January 20th in DC, as well as at the Poor People’s protest in Philadelphia. The fascistic far leftist groups claims of activism in aid of ending/reducing poverty is a sham.
They represent a globalist worldview, in support of undermining the US economy, to drag it down to third world standards, so as to undermine what the US has historically stood for, rights and freedoms. Their counterparts, for example, Code Pink, International A.N.S.W.E.R. and others receive funding by the same corporate and foreign interests that demand an increase in H1B and other visas, open borders and the displacement of US citizens in the US workplace.
If the far left actually cared about civil and human rights, they would be speaking out against the discrimination against American citizens in the workplace, the exploitation of our visa programs, causing massive citizen unemployment, homelessness, hunger, and destitution.
Where was the far left, when black citizens, where denied the right to return home to Louisiana after hurricane Katrina to take the jobs rebuilding New Orleans and other areas, jobs that would have helped them to rebuild their and their children’s lives?? Where was the ACLU when Davis Bacon was overturned in favor of allowing KBR, Dick Cheney’s Halliburton to pay less than the wage standard, and hire the illegal aliens who were strangely allowed to flock into the state, on school buses, when the state was still considered to dangerous to allow citizens to enter? There was collusion, between the far left and the neo-cons in the Bush administration then, and there is still to this day. We see it in play with Obama, his appointments, his flip flopping on his campaign promises, his taking payola from Wall St. to fund his inauguration, his refusing to end the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest, his commitment to take the bailout to fund illegal aliens, give them preference in the few new jobs he will subsidize with our tax dollars, instead of for the citizens he claimed he would help.
The ACLU or any other so called civil rights group, were silent when a judge stated that stealing a citizen’s identity, even when it leaves the citizen stuck with owing millions to the IRS, for wages earned by illegal aliens, who bought their identity, and who are left to deal with the problem of proving their innocence on their own, most times left with their credit history destroyed, and their ability to even collect social security when they retire destroyed? A clear violation of a citizen’s civil rights, but that’s acceptable to the far left.
Where are the far left law firms representing poor citizens who are being discriminated against, fired from their jobs, by corporate and business interests breaking the law??? Where is the hue and cry about citizens unable to support themselves, by these same far leftists? Where are the protests over citizen families living in tent cities?
Where are the far left activists speaking out against toxic, contaminated food, products, toys and medications imported from China, India and Latin America? They have been silent, on each and every occasion of this. Where
They can claim that they are opposed to corporate interests, but their actions speak otherwise. They have systematically worked to persecute, demonize, dehumanize citizens, censor their attempts to petition their government to seek redress as the constitution provides them the right to do. I’ve seen an affluent white so called, “activists” attempt to smear black and Hispanic American citizens as being xenophobes, when they spoke out on how illegal aliens are displacing them in the workplace, and present a threat to their children’s ability to get jobs. It’s obvious to anyone that the hatred is on the part of those who are promoting illegal aliens as having more rights than citizens, demanding that citizens rights be ignored. American citizens who speak out are NOT guilty of hatred, they are speaking out on behalf of their economic interests, and their right to have their constitutional rights, freedoms protected and enforced.
The big money funders of the far left are not altruistic people, looking to lift all boats, promote rights and freedoms. They are wealthy and powerful interests, driven by greed, and a blind lust for total control. Fascism was not a right wing construct, it sprang from the left, as did communism and socialism, as well as the national socialists, the nazis.
They’ve been hard at work, attempting to foement “revolution” in the US for a long time, their problems have been, that while they’ve always had a few takers, the majority of American citizens, and they are black and brown as well as white, the vast majority recognized the lies, and hypocrisies of communism and socialism, and rejected it. Anyone who remembers the presidential election in 2000, should remember that the far left were demanding a Bush presidency, because they felt that the economic devastation that would be brought about would force Americans into “the movement”, aka.. to being willing blood sacrifices to overthrowing the government. They support massive waves of illegal aliens entering the country, because it destabilizes the economy, with the bonus that those from Latin America have been historical dupes for Marxist propaganda.
There is nothing wrong with increasing immigration if there was truly a surplus of jobs/lack of citizen workers, but that is clearly not the current situation. What the corporate, business and foreign elites are demanding is that they be allowed to import/hire cheaper foreign
labor, so they can avoid hiring citizen workers, paying wage standards, comply with workforce, environmental and other protections.
The GDP is misleading, because it doesn’t reflect the entire population’s earnings, but the profits of the wealthiest. We are trillions and trillions of dollars in debt, and Obama will send us further into debt to China, Saudi Arabia, Japan and other countries, at the same time, China and the Saudis are already telling us that they aren’t going to continue to loan us any more money.
It includes the profits made by US owners of multinationals, but doesn’t include the fact that citizens lost wages as their jobs were outsourced. It includes the profits Halliburton made as war profiteers, or an oil company made, or the profits made from cleaning up an oil spill, but not the losses citizens face when they can’t drink the well water from their land, because the oil spill contaminated it. It includes the increased profits from the company that imports contaminated produce and peanut butter from Mexico, but not the losses of families who had to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, perhaps even more, to pay for the medical care they had to get when they were sickened, some even going into kidney or liver failure as a result. GDP doesn’t reflect the fact that citizens wages have declined radically, and the wealthiest’s have increased radically.
GDP does not reflect honestly the health of our economy, it is an attempt to sweep the truth under the rug.
Btw, I found that I hadn’t completed a sentence, re: my comment about identity theft, I meant to type the fact that a judge stated that it it wasn’t a crime if an illegal alien stole a citizen’s identity, leaving the citizen (s) with a huge debt to the IRS.
WEVS1
“In other words, this is a standard lefty work that blames institutional discrimination i.e. racism for the lack of assimilation. You may disagree with their conclusion but it is what it is.”
Their conclusion is different from my conclusion that there should be less immigration, but their actual collected data disagrees with your assertion (at least strongly implied) that hispanic assimilation is going as good as the assimilation of european groups did in the distant past.
I can admire that they took the time to figure out the data and based their conclusion on it. Policy conclusions are a lot more subjective than actual data, so their disagreement with me doesn’t seem as serious as their disagreement with you. You have been arguing a conclusion based on a false premise. You probably trusted the Wall Street Journal editorial page or whoever to tell the truth, like tons of people do, so I don’t blame you for it.
On the subject of language, I did quote “All Mexican Americans were English-proficient by the second generation”. The problem is that this is often the datapoint that people use to declare that hispanic assimilation is going great and declare victory. But Rumbaut, Gonzales, Telles, and Ortiz didn’t fall for that one.
WEVS1
“In other words, this is a standard lefty work that blames institutional discrimination i.e. racism for the lack of assimilation. You may disagree with their conclusion but it is what it is.”
Their conclusion is different from my conclusion that there should be less immigration, but their actual collected data disagrees with your assertion (at least strongly implied) that hispanic assimilation is going as good as the assimilation of european groups did in the distant past.
I can admire that they took the time to figure out the data and based their conclusion on it. Policy conclusions are a lot more subjective than actual data, so their disagreement with me doesn’t seem as serious as their disagreement with you. You have been arguing a conclusion based on a false premise. You probably trusted the Wall Street Journal editorial page or whoever to tell the truth, like tons of people do, so I don’t blame you for it.
On the subject of language, I did quote “All Mexican Americans were English-proficient by the second generation”. The problem is that this is often the datapoint that people use to declare that hispanic assimilation is going great and declare victory. But Rumbaut, Gonzales, Telles, and Ortiz didn’t fall for that one.
Temoc is back propagandizing, those illegals in Texas worked doing jobs Americans have done and still need to do, earning far less, so as to dramatically increase the profits of the corporate/business interests. At the same time, the taxpayers had to subsidize the cheaper wages, by providing subsidized housing, welfare payments, food stamps, health care, expanded school costs, much higher than they would pay for citizen children, because full k-12 ESL costs billions in extra costs in states all around the country. In short, had those Texas corporations and businesses hired and paid citizens to do those same jobs, the state would have saved 1.16 billion in services, as those citizens, when they performed those jobs, weren’t collecting those social welfare and other programs. They supported themselves and their children, spent their money in the local communities, which created more jobs, and they paid taxes. Illegal aliens send billions out of the country, and expect welfare to support them, instead of paying their own way. Essentially, citizens are told they must spend billions to provide a corporate welfare program, subsidize illegal alien labor, so corporations and businesses can avoid paying citizens a fair wage standard. There is no benefit for our economy or our people, in fact, we are losing by allowing this to go on.
Reb, the illegal alien problem can easily be dealt with. FDR and Eisenhower did. We must say no more amnesties, they have only encouraged more illegal aliens to attempt to come to the US. The first thing we need to do is demand E-verify be continued, we must go after employers of illegals, and impose huge, heavy fines and jail sentences upon employers who hire illegals knowingly, especially those who refuse to voluntarily use E-verify, and then hire illegals. We must continue the wall on our southern border, and start enforcing our immigration laws. We have to stop making it easier on illegals, there can be no more welfare or other benefits for illegals, legal immigrants aren’t provided these benefits, and must commit to not applying for those programs for five years, illegals have no right to them.
We have to tell doctors and hospitals that they must demand identification from those who come to hospitals for treatment. Citizens are expected to show ID, it’s not discriminatory to expect all to document who they are, to prevent those who seek to avoid having to pay for their health care. This is not cruel or unfair. To allow illegals to subvert the system discriminates against the citizens who are forced to comply.
The president of the Banco de Mexico, the largest bank in Mexico has stated that as long as the US foolishly allows Mexicans to enter and remain in the US, the Mexican government will be able to get away with avoiding honoring the promises it made in NAFTA, enacting farm reform, raising taxes on it’s now large and thriving middle class and many billion/millionaires and businesses, to improve opportunities, education, access to health care, and raise wage standards for it’s poorest. That was supposed to be part of the deal, when millions of American’s jobs were sent to Mexico. It’s now a very wealthy country, and has zero national debt. Let’s call it, tough love. To continue to encourage illegal aliens to come to the US, is to serioiusly harm poor and struggling American citizens, which will destabilize our country. It also serves to preserve the status quo that keeps people locked in poverty in Mexico. What’s more, no one in Mexico is starving, or deprived of employment. Mexico has a housing boom, lots of jobs. The wages are lower, but so is the cost of living.
Temoc, when you talk about Christopher Columbus, you’re talking about the Italian, who was hired by the Spanish, who sailed not to what is now called the United States, but to what is now the Caribbean and Latin America, and we all know what your ancestors, the Spanish did from that point on. Genocide, slaughter, the creation of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, theft, brutality. You are the illegal alien, your ancestors slaughtered the indigenous and you don’t have the right to feign indigenous ancestry.
The English, German and Dutch, etc.. who came to the US, have a bad legacy in their treatment of my people, but their behavior is almost negligible in comparison with that of the Spanish. The ancestors of the American citizenry sought to come to live in a new land, your ancestors, the Spanish, sought to rape and pillage, enslave and annihilate, and you still seek to do the same. You have no claim to this country, and frankly, no claim to culture and civilization.
@ DK;
Here are some more of your heroes from the 21st century incarnation of the “know nothing party” – straight from Arizona – ground zero for the contemporary nativist movement!
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.c.....horton.php
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/.....i-protest/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa3jgT55pbg
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com.....uttonhead/
Never mind that back in 2006, Russell Pearce was caught forwarding an anti-Semitic e-mail to his supporters — an e-mail from the neo-Nazi National Alliance.
Frankly, given below replacement white birth rates – all over the globe;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....6441.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4757261.stm
Russell Pearce’s efforts to keep Arizona white will fail.
As of 2007, “Hispanics” were already a plurality of AZ births. (Page 2, Figure 1B-1)
http://www.azdhs.gov/plan/repo.....text1b.pdf
Mesa is Arizona’s 2nd largest city after Phoenix, here Mesa Police Chief George Gascon writes;
“Whites make up 62% of criminal arrests in Mesa, AZ. Hispanics make up 24% of criminal arrests in Mesa. These are proportionate to the percentages of whites and Hispanics in Mesa. “Hispanics” are about 25% of Mesa.”
http://www.sabanforsheriff.com......php?t=137
A plurality of Arizona prison inmates are white. “Criminal Aliens” are only 10% – a whole 4200 inmates. I suspect a legal permanent residents, aka green card holders, would also be counted as a criminal aliens. This means that not all 10% of “criminal aliens” may be undocumented.
If there are 500,000 – 600,000 undocumented immigrants resident in Arizona, what percentage does 4200 compute to? And that assumes green card holders (legal permanent residents) are not counted among the “criminal aliens”
http://www.azcorrections.gov/a.....GJan08.pdf
70% of Arizona death row inmates are WHITE, only one is a foreign national, click here to see their mug shots;
http://test.azcorrections.gov/.....eath%20Row
BTW, Mexicans are “only” 56% of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants resident on US soil – page 2, bullet point 5
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf
Granted another 22% hail from “other Latin American countries”
Point is; dozens of nationalities besides Mexicans stand to gain from a broad legalization program for undocumented immigrants.
Amnesty touches home for Bay Area Asians; About 1.5 million Chinese, Filipinos, others live here illegally — many overstayed visas
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....e=politics
http://opinion.latimes.com/opi.....legal.html
http://www.searchindia.com/sea.....egals.html
Finally, these videos should please you greatly DK;
Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s latest anti-immigrant sweep.
Just look at the mug shot of this dangerous woman who was arrested and separated from her children during this weekend’s Maricopa County Sheriff immigration sweep.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.c.....ildren.php
In the not too distant future, that video will elicit the same emotions in most Americans that this 1897 video, showing the arrest of an “illegal alien” by San Francisco Police, in ChinaTown does.
http://memory.loc.gov/mbrs/lcmp003/m3a15145.mpg
@ Jenny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....annel_page
Temoc,
I’m not going to watch your propaganda piece, they are a dime a dozen. American citizens are my priority, not you and your cheap foreign labor advocacy. The true sleeping giant, the American citizen is awakening and the free ride is over.
I sent links to your comments to friends across the country, and in combination with the fury they’ve expressed over Obama’s fraudulent promises and his duplicity, more democrats than ever before are up in arms. I have commitments from them, with promises to get friends and family involved, to visit senators and representatives offices en masse, and give them a piece of our minds on the subject of illegals and the corruption we are seeing unfolding.
I can make you one promise… the illegal alien “protests” of a few years will be nothing by comparison to what is coming. Citizens have had it with this, and as our constitution affords us the right to do, we will do a heck of a lot more than take to the streets and wave flags. From New Jersey to California, from southern states like Florida, Louisiana to northern states like Minnesota and Washington, this is going to grow into a rolling mass of infuriated Americans of all races and ethnicities.
There are many more of us than there are of you, and now that we are growing united in this, there will be no stopping us, I promise you. I have a friend working on getting a constutitutional lawyer to do some pro-bono work, and some investigators as well.
“If the far left actually cared about civil and human rights, they would be speaking out against the discrimination against American citizens in the workplace, the exploitation of our visa programs, causing massive citizen unemployment, homelessness, hunger, and destitution.”
Jenny, you are my hero. Why is this so difficult for so many to understand?
Have you heard about this?:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/.....-ussc.html
Yes, Jews (nearly all of them well-meaning but misguided liberal/secular Jews) have been responsible for trying to act like human rights mensches while directly benefitting from slave labor due to the flooding of America with millions of low-skilled/no-skilled 3rd world immigrants. This has been terrible for working Americans as a whole, but a boon for businesses in large urban areas who profit handily from the cheap labor these immigrants provide.
Fixed.
Judi, one commenter was using a sock puppet to appear as two people.
“Their conclusion is different from my conclusion that there should be less immigration, but their actual collected data disagrees with your assertion (at least strongly implied) that hispanic assimilation is going as good as the assimilation of european groups did in the distant past.’
My main point (above) is the arguments made against Hispanic immigrants today are almost identical to those made against other immigrants in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. The skin color and country of origin of the immigrants may have changed but the language and assumptions of Nativists has not. This does not come from reading the WSJ, it comes from an understanding of American history.
My main point (above) is the arguments made against Hispanic immigrants today are almost identical to those made against other immigrants in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.
You have not addressed La Raza/Reconquista-based objections, and the peril of having mass immigration from one different people and culture.
Additionally, what of the fact that we are not in need of low-skilled labor at this time?
DK,
American Jews are not acting rationally on this subject, as they are driven by grievance politics. Grievance politics unites disparate minorities in unthinking opposition to the majority, even against rational self interest. The politics of grievance is an unthinking ersatz ethnic loyalty, wherein one defines oneself in opposition, rather than in being. It leads Jews to support political correctness, immigration of Muslims, and Third Worldism, even though these are all against their rational self interest as an Americans or as a Jews. It leads so-called Jewish Leaders to oppose vouchers, even as lack of Jewish education leads to intermarriage and population decline. It leads black leaders to support immigration, liberal social politics, and objectively failing education and social models. And this doesn’t just apply to minorities in the West. Grievance politics in the form of anti-colonialism allows the South African regime to support Mugabe’s starvation of fellow Africans in the once prosperous Zimbabwe.
WEVS1 – There are important differences between our current immigration status and that of the past. Of course different nationalities published news, etc in their native tongues, but there was never the massive push make “official” the various languages. The lobbying efforts as evidenced by “La Raza” (The Race) is a new dimension indeed. The history involving the US and Mexico is also unique. Mexican children are taught that the US essentially stole their land (our current Southwest region). As a result, there is a hostility present that is certainly significant. Additionally, the racial angle cannot responsibly be overlooked. Right or wrong, race exists, and is recognized especially by those who are caught up in the surge of their own interest groups. To ignore this is disingenuis at best.
Regarding our present course, I believe my view of our future is pretty logical: Special interest identity politics; ethnic groups will logically push for power – resulting in the increasing Congressional Caucus groups. The country will not be able to unify to save itself in the face of any threat. Basically a system of racial spoils awaits.
Mazal tov! Your post made it on to the website of David Duke, former macher in the KKK and well known holocoust denier
http://www.davidduke.com yemach shemo
Holy crap, David!
I bet when you got up this morning, if someone had said, “Quick – five things off the top of your head that could happen today” – this would not have been one of them!
By the way, you’re no longer welcome at the weekly meeting of Pissed-off Jewish Intellectuals.
A post on The Forward is right below his repost of mine, so I am in good company. Are we going to reject The Forward because it made David Duke’s site?
No, wait – I take that back. It would have been funnier if I had said,
“You’ll do anything to prove to the Right that you aren’t one of us, won’t you?”
Are we going to reject The Forward because it made David Duke’s site?
We may have to!
The blunt truth is: if peoples of European descent do not reclaim their lands they will perish. Talk of moratoriums and giving non-Whites time to assimilate is just more eyewash. From the perspective of racially aware Whites, who want to preserve what we are – yes, genetically – non-White assimilation is not desirable anyway. Nay, a moratorium will not do; what we need is maximum repatriation.
It is the growing conviction of many of the best people of our race that we must do all that is necessary to remain forever ourselves. To do less is to submit to genocide. Never.
There you go – white supremacists and Holocaust deniers.
You were saying?
Nothing. It will pass.
Further, I can very simply tell you the source of grievance for racially aware White men. It is: For more than a century Jews have used their talents, group cohesion, accumulated wealth and influence to relentlessly pathologize any expression of European peoplehood for the purpose of advancing the group interests of Jews at the expense of those of European descent. It is that Jews deny to us what they keep for themselves – a spiritualized connection to the blood and lands of their people. These are the things best in life according to what Nature has made us.
The question: Will you deny the European peoples the necessary conditions to ensure their genetic continuity? I have already adumbrated what those necessary conditions are in another comment above.
“Nazi” is an ambiguous epithet used to silence and shame Whites into submission (Just what is meant by “Nazi”?). I think a more fitting epithet, for the enemies to the very being of those of European descent, is anti-White genocidalist.
Have I now crossed some mystical barrier of decency in your minds, having spoken so bluntly, that my voice must be silenced? If so, why so?
Can a White man speak in his own voice, for the interests of his own people?
Captainchaos, this is a Jewish site that is often critical of aspects of the Jewish community. But it is not a site that is appropriate for WNs to express their grievances of the Jewish communities. I would appreciate you not upsetting my readers. Most of Mr. Duke’s readers have respected that this is not the place for such discussions.
DK,
I appreciate the hospitality you have extended to me thus far and will in future respect your request. I will say that I am neither acolyte of, nor contributor to, Mr. Duke – though I do occasionally peruse his website.
A little about myself, now, to provide some balm for whatever fraying of nerves my presence here has aroused in your discerning readership. I am a young man, of English-Scottish-Dutch-German descent, who started along the path to racialism about a year and a half ago. My journey to the Truth, the Truth so eloquently described by Disreali, has been tumultuous for me. It was not easy for me that there could then be no other way of seeing things than that which is ascribed to the lowest order of villain. Not easy to know that there can be no going back. There was also anger, anger that the ineffable majesty of my people should now be brought to the edge of the abyss of extinction and thought good; or at least beyond the pale of what is moral to forgo it. All that has now washed away with the realization that it is my life’s privilege to aid my people in their struggle for, not just survival, but the renewal of all that is best in them; to conduct our life struggle with honor and humanity so that we need not know shame.
Whatever my people have done, it cannot be denied that the worst of it, we did to each other. Whatever punishment due, whatever debt owed, it have been paid (as many as thirteen million Germans died post war).
I know, I have seen, young men come back from Iraq – broken. We have given everything of ourselves to secure the existence of Israel. Now, we want those of your people of decency and honor to have a care, stand for us that my people might live. The coming century will decide if all the sacrifices and noble triumphs of my ancestors have been for naught. My people must live.
JEWS NOT A RACE;
WHITES CONVERTED;
MOSES & EXODUS PROVEN TO BE MYTHS,
NOT FACTS;
IMMIGRATION PROMOTION BASED ON MISTAKEN SELF-IDENTITY.
This is an excellent article. It is indisputable that many people of the Jewish religion promote
3rd world immigration heavily. It is obvious that immigration destroys a nation by imposing more
demands on limited resources, such as jobs, land, water, education and health-care. This is the
reason for our falling employment and rising prices. And if immigration were so good, these 3rd
worlders would never let anybody escape, instead of promoting Emigation out.
But the reason the Judaists do this is because of THEIR FALSE MISTAKEN BELIEFS
about themselves. I know it may offend some readers, but I request that they put aside their
emotions for a few minutes and look at the following facts logically and rationally before making up
their minds.
1. RACES: There are only 3 races: caucasoid, negroid and oriental. Some people are a
mixture of these. No serious anthropologist or biologist believes in a separate race called “Jews”.
Many “Jews” have blond hair and are as white as any white person, because, they are of the white
race! It is so obvions.
But what if “Jew” means the Middle-Eastern ethnic tribe? Whites in ancient Egypt (Africa) as slaves and surviving!!! Pls. keep reading and you will
see the answer.
2 Khazar Conversion: People of various races converted to Judaism. The majority of the
present-day “Jews” are descendents of the caucasian Khazars (such as the Ashkenazi and the Turko-
European khazars) that were forced to convert to Judaism by their King.
An excellent article on Hareetz.com called “An invention called the Jewish people” by a
Jewish historian shows this clearly and is available at:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959229.html
For extensive research on khazars (caucasians) who converted to Judaism, see
http://www.khazaria.com/
Also see the book “THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE”, by Arthur Koestler (Random House).
Thus, the ancestors of the Whites who imagine they are “Jews”, were never ever in Egypt, or
Judea, or of any “semite” region or tribe.
3. MOSES, ENSLAVEMENT, EXODUS, TALMUD, ZOHAR ARE ALL MYTHS.
The Torah (Old Testament) is filled with myths such as a man called Moses, the myth of
Exodus and the persecution of Jews by an Egyptian (African) King who allegedly enslaved them.
Anybody with a little common-sense knows that the Torah cannot be true. A little common sense
tells you that it is fiction from Page 1. The Earth is not 4000 years old. Cultures (unknown to the
scribes) flourished much before. Written records and archeological evidence using carbon dating
show man tens of thousands years ago. A million people cannot live in the desert for a 100 years.
The techniques of higher criticism showed that the Old Testament was weaved together out
of four source documents and was produced much later than claimed.
Furthermore, archaelogical and historical evidence has repeatedly confirmed the obvious–
that the stories of Moses, Exodus, Abraham, Joshua, King David, etc. to be basically myths and the
Old Testament to be great literature, not history.
For eg., according to Prof. Ze’ev Herzog who teaches in the Department of Archaeology and
Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University, in an article entitled “Deconstructing the
Walls of Jericho”, states as follows:
“This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites
were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign
and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is the fact that the
united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at
most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of
Israel, Jehovah, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only
in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai. Most of those who are engaged in
scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish
people – and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story – now
agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people’s emergence are radically
different from what that story tells.” (in an article in the Jewish magazine Haaretz, as republished
on http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm)
Ancient Egyptians, who kept excellent records, make no mention of what would have been a
historic event of any Moses or any “Jew” slaves escaping, though they make mention of one
Egyptian slave who once escaped and was caught.
Another excellent book by British writers Gandy and Freke indicates that Moses and Exodus
are pure myths and Moses never really existed and the Exodus never happened.
See: The Laughing Jesus: Religious Lies and Gnostic Wisdom, by Timothy Freke and Peter
Gandy.
The fact is there was no Abraham, Moses, nor any King David, no enslavement in Egypt,
and no Exodus. All these stories are myths copied from prevalent Zorastrian, Egyptian and other
Eastern myths (such as Sargon & Mises/Manu myths, the Code of Hammurabi, etc.) prevalent
around that time in the Near East and projected back in time. Even as far back as 1927, Historian G
F Moore concluded: “Many scholars are convinced that this whole system of ideas was appropriated
by the Jews from the Zoroastrians.”
Also see the article entitled “The Forgery of the Old Testament” by Joseph McCabe:
http://www.infidels.org/librar.....er_07.html
If the Old Testament is myth, and there was no Moses, by corollary, the Talmud (which is
claimed to have been uttered by Moses and passed down) is a forgery too since Moses never existed.
The Zohar, is by corollary, similarly a forgery, because it is based on the Old Testament.
Yes, maybe they have mythological religious wisdom and worship of God, and are good as
prayer, but, as history, as a record of a people, nation and culture, they are forgeries.
So why do Judaists promote immigration? Well, they will tell you their reason–they feel
safer in a multiracial society because they mistakenly believe the delusion they are a separate race!!
They mistakenly believe the stories of their persecution and oppression and enslavement happened
to THEM, when in fact, it never did! They are trying to protect themselves because of their
mythical beliefs of a non-existent “race” and actually destroying THEIR OWN WHITE RACE in
the process!!
To save America from the multicultural madness and the alien invasion, miscegenation,
blancophobia (terms I have had to invent to describe the attack on white people by other Whites)
we have to awaken Whites (who think they are ‘Jews’ and are trying to protect their own race from
basically their race) that they are the Whites and their imaginary ‘history’ is fiction!
On a similar note: http://state-of-exile.blogspot.....ality.html
“One of the lessons of Jewish survival is the value of particularity. Yet our particularity must be universal in the sense of taking others’ particularity seriously. We are not Christians. As much as we do not want to merge Jew and Greek in Christ, we should not want to merge Jew and Greek in the American melting pot or in some humanist utopia. Yet the preservation of plurality is in tension with the tenets of ideological multiculturalism. The demographic growth and lack of assimilation of non-pluralist cultures can destroy the pluralist basis of the multicultural country.”
I gather what the author is saying is that Jews are justified in their continuing destruction of White Americans because German Whites murdered millions of Jews between 1934 and 1945?
Maybe the anti White Jews need to look up WW2 on Wikepedia or some other basic historical website. White Americans fought against White Germans to end the reign of Hitler and the Nazis in Germany. To read Jewish chauvinist and ADL propaganda, one would think that America sided with Hitler’s Germany during WW2.
And American Jews repay the White Americans who fought on their side during WW2 and paid for the establishment of the State of Israel by ethnic cleansing White Americans from their own country.
As far as allowing Jews into this country after WW2, we let in George Soros and Abe Foxman, 2 Jews who openly advocate the elimination of non Jewish Whites from the face of the earth.
I gather what the author is saying is that Jews are justified in their continuing destruction of White Americans because German Whites murdered millions of Jews between 1934 and 1945?
Which author is that?
If one believes that the Jewish part of the bible is historical truth, here is the timeline for the Jewish state.
1,000 BC Jews arrive in Canaan as invaders and colonists. Natives still resist.
950 BC Jews set up the ARK at Shiloh and arrive in Jerusalem King David era
900 BC Glory days,King Solomon
785 BC Jewish state conquered by Assyrians
560 BC Babolonian Empire conquers Assyrian territory including the Jewish territory within the Assyrian empire
380 Alexander’s Greek army conquers the Babalonian empire including its Jewish territory.
50 BC Rome conquers the area, including Jewish areas.
250 AD Roman government discovers area is heavily Christian.
650 AD Muslim Arabs conquer territory.
1100 AD Turkish Muslims conquer territory.
1917 Turks took wrong side during WW1. Area becomes league of nations mandate.
1922. British Jews bribe colonial secretary of Britain Winston Churchill with 50,000 pounds. Churchill purchases country seat Chequers with 25,000. He uses the rest to remodel and modernize chequers and provide education and launching in life for his 4 children and other family expenses.
1948 After heavy bribes are distributed to S. American delagates and Rockefeller’s are extorted by threats against their oil interests in Venezula, UN creates Israel.
So folks, if you go solely by the Jewish version of their history, one sees that there was a viable Jewish state for only 165 years in the last 2,000 years. If you go by other historians,Solomon and DAvid did not exist and the old testament Jewish state was a myth created by Babylonian Jews around 600-400 BC
“DK { 02.12.10 at 4:39 pm } I gather what the author is saying is that Jews are justified in their continuing destruction of White Americans because German Whites murdered millions of Jews between 1934 and 1945?
Which author is that?”
The author who claims that American Jews are still so frightened by the German attempt to exterminate European Jews 1934-1945 that Jews are justified in their hatred and continual well organized attacks on non Jewish American Whites.
Read the names of attorneys on the anti White side of the affirmative action lawsuits. Greenberg, Goldberg, Rosenberg. Lists of attorneys who file anti White affirmative action and school busing lawsuits read like the list of the local Bnai Brith members.
I always look at what people do, not what they say. And when Jewish attorneys file affirmative action lawsuits that result in non Jewish Whites being virtually unemployable in most government jobs such as post office, social security, DMV, public transportation and others, I look on what those Jewish attorneys did, not their hypocritical preaching about non discrimination, peace and love.
Jews who worship and adore non Whites should spend 30 years working with blacks, pacific islanders, hispanics and asians and hear what those groups think and say about American Jews. I have.
I base my opinions about Jews on what Jewish attorneys have done with their school busing, affirmative action and defense of black on white criminal lawsuits to destroy me and mine and my city, andSt. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Flint Mich, Newark NJ, Oakland, Pittsburg, Richmond, Vallejo Ca and most of the rest of the East San Francisco Bay.
Then there is the role of Jewish multimillionaire communist Stanley Sheinbaum as the fomentor and leader of the Rodney King riots.
Hispanics, blacks, asians, pacific islanders, arabs, indians and even the former soviet immigrants truly despise Jews.
I can only conclude that American Jews side with black criminals, and non white immigrants against Whites on the grounds that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
Jews who believe the standard Foxman Soros propaganda that American Whites are the enemy need to open their eyes to reality. Do the Jewish Drs who fill their clinics and offices with Philipino nurses and technicians and hispanic clerks have any idea what their beloved non white employees think of Jews?
Hispanic maids gardeners andother household help despise their Jewish employeers. When I was a child I heard black maids at the surban train station talking about how much they hated the Jewish women who employed them.
As an adult I’ve spent decades listening to non Whites and hispanic immigrants trash talking about Jews.
I’m sure the federally funded hispanic activists are happy to go to conference swith Jewish rabbis and ADL leaders and moan and groan about the evil anglos. But the federally funded hispanic leaders know very well who runs the garment industry and other sweatshops that exploit hispanics.
So do I.
Margaret, I never said or implied “justified.” I am the author of this essay. You are grossly mischaracterizing me personally.
Then there is the role of Jewish multimillionaire communist Stanley Sheinbaum as the fomentor and leader of the Rodney King riots.
Please explain.
Thanks David for your very honest, principled stand presenting the truths about immigration, Jewish attitudes towards immigration that are left over from a different era and simply will not change. American Jewish support for mass immigration, even near open borders immigration seems to be a fundamentalist, unshakeable religious dogma amongst so many American Jews. That cursed poem on the bottom of the Statue of Liberty (originally a gift from Republican France celebrating American/French support for “liberty” had nothing to do with immigration – it was added on later) it might as well be an eleventh commandment for the American Jewish community – “Thou Shalt support open borders, welcoming unlimited huddled masses from everywhere in the world”.
Sadly, that’s just the way it is.
As for some suggestions on how anything can be done to make the American Jewish community “change” their views of mass immigration, I think good reasonable people such as yourself should continue trying, but nothing will really change until some (more) really, really bad things happen to the American Jewish community because of mass immigration.
I lived in New York City during the brutal crime years 1985-1992. I noted a similar Jewish commitment to defending, excusing the worst of Black African American crime – to be “liberal” towards Blacks was also once a part of being Jewish. Even the most horrible crimes – the Central Park gang rape, wilding attacks – the record 2,000 murders in one year didn’t seem to shake, or break the NYC Jewish commitment to excusing or denying Black crime.
And then there finally occurred the Crown Heights Black pogrom against Jews -the Black criminal mob had turned on the NYC Jewish community. That event seemed to change things. Jews voted for Rudy Giuliani instead of Dinkins. And New York City was saved.
I thought the 9/11/01 terrorist attack by Muslim extremist immigrants/illegals in New York City would have been enough to change the American Jewish community’s position on immigration. Sadly, it wasn’t enough. We got another Iraq war, but no changes in immigration. I think additional, horrible immigrant Muslim terrorist attacks against Jewish institutions in America might be the only thing to change hearts and minds of American Jewish community on the issue of immigration. And all should understand that unless things change very soon, poor and working class White Americans will be receptive to anti Semitic demagogues blaming THE JEWS for the terrible damages of mass Third World immigration, including mass Muslim immigration/colonization.
Thanks again David.
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