Quid Pro Quo?
March 29, 2009 Immigration, Israel
Dr. Kevin MacDonald, a prominent critic of the Jewish community (to put it mildly) has put an offer on the table to the Jewish community.
I would be willing to make a quid pro quo with the organized Jewish community: If you support white ethno-nationalism in the US and provide intensive, effective support for ending and reversing the immigration policy of recent decades (i.e., something approaching the support you presently provide Israel), I would be willing to go to the wall to support Jewish ethno-nationalism in Israel, even at substantial cost for the US.
MacDonald has a trenchant observation (hardly his first) that the Jewish community would be wise to consider.
…even the prospect of millions of Muslim immigrants is not enough to diminish the enthusiasm for massive non-white immigration by the organized Jewish community — a sure sign that the decades-old emotional commitment of the organized Jewish community to a post-European America trumps rational considerations altogether.
I think it is important to listen to your critics, and even your enemies, provided they are coherent (never mind erudite, such as MacDonald). Summarily dismissing such people as “anti-semites” to the point where they are ignored even internally is not helpful, even if they are, indeed, anti-semitic. That doesn’t mean you should engage in a protracted debate with them about why they are or aren’t “anti-semitic.” It means evaluating their specific litany of complaints, and seeing if some of them have merit, and if you or your community is indeed doing something or someone wrong.
I personally find this most helpful when the complaint is over something that the critic or his community is invested in directly, and when the community that is the object of the complaint is one that I am a part of. So for instance, I am not an Israeli, and MacDonald is not a Palestinian. So usually, his specific complaints on the State of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians are least interesting to me. His complaints on how the American Jewish community is deleteriously affecting the majority population of the U.S. and the nation itself are most interesting to me. Additionally, when MacDonald speaks of evolutionary strategies, even if true (and I do not make any such assertion), this is less interesting to me as it is not something that can be changed even if it were true. But when the criticism is on domestic Jewish communal policy, this is more interesting to me as it is something which can be changed (at least, in theory), if he and others are correct.
If the Jewish organizational community were listening carefully to pretty much any of the major concerns about mass immigration, they would at the very least NOT be pushing Progress By Pesach. But the organizational Jewish world does listen to anyone outside of its donor base, least of all its critics, even their Jewish ones, never mind their anti-Jewish ones.
From a communal intellectual perspective, who is more useful to us? MacDonald, or some in-house social justice cheerleader who jumps up and down about how wonderful we are?
We Jews should probably all be reading MacDonald–and all our lucid critics–a lot more, and we should read them differently than we do. It’s painful reading, and not always fair. But it’s up to us to parse what is real from what is not. What is fantasy, what is exaggerated, what has some merit, and what is spot on. And to fail to do this is only to fail ourselves.
Listen to your enemies.
9 comments
@ DK
The notion that American Jews would endorse a white entho nationalist state in the USA is preposterous, at least in the aggregate (every community has some nuts).
Based on my admittedly limited knowledge of Jewish psychology, I find it hard to fathom American Jews endorsing abolition of the 1964 civil rights act and the return of racial/ethnic segregation in the USA.
It’s also hard to fathom American Jews strategizing with the likes of David Duke. And if American Jews can ally themselves with David Duke and Kevin MacDonald, then the logical extension would be an alliance with the likes of Austrias new far right leader Heinz Christian Strache.
Then I suppose American Jews could attend summer camp with Austria’s Burschenschaften? Maybe even attend lectures by their guru, Herbert Schweiger?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/hom.....stria.html
But hey, what do I know? I’m just a FAT MEXICAN…
Temoc, your guilt by non-association is becoming wearisome.
That’s fine DK, it’s YOUR site after all. And this is AMERICA, so you have a right to your opinion…but then again…so do I!
America has been multi-racial, multi-ethnic,multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-religious, etc since the FIRST DAY Europeans (whites) set foot on our north American continent.
Who invited Europeans, including the Spanish, here in the FIRST PLACE?
If the whites don’t like it now…too bad!
GO BACK TO EUROPE from whence you came!
It’s not our fault that more whites die each day than are born. How could it be when this is a global phenomenon?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....mp;ei=5040
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080303/joyce
http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/23784
Bottom line; There will be no repeal of the 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS act. There will be no USA Bantustans. If Kevin McDonald, or David Duke, don’t like it, tough! Besides, what percentage of USA whites do they speak for anyway?
Harbinger;
“Hispanic” kids are now 50.2% of ALL first graders in the State of Texas.
http://www.star-telegram.com/n.....05353.html
Christopher Columbus = FIRST “illegal alien”
What in hell does the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT have to do with mass legal and illegal immigration, Temoc? Do tell. Try to explain without referencing Duke and MacDonald, as your wrathful rants are often incoherent enough as is.
The notion that American Jews would endorse a white entho nationalist state in the USA is interesting. As I understand it, there have been sea-changes in what constitutes mainstream Jewish opinion in the past. A hundred years ago Zionism was anathema to a large proportion (perhaps the majority) of Jews, correct?
The quid pro quo as offered is not much of a carrot to the Jewish community. Kevin MacDonald is not that powerful. The point is just that an analogy can be made be Israel and a hypothetic white-separatist state or country. An analogy is just an analogy – whites don’t have to be the same as Jews for it to be valid. I am interested in hearing a critique of the analogy per se, though I worry that what I will keep hearing from the left is just anti-anti-semitism (which is valid but not quite on-topic).
Blode0322, the issue is not the U.S. becoming a “white entho nationalist state” at all, but rather, a change in terms of immigration policy, particularly towards illegals.
Temoc is the biggest ethno nationalist visitor here, and that is why he constantly sees hyper ethno-nationalists in all who challenge what he wants.
“You see it, you are it.”
I sort of insinuated the notion of white North American homeland, modeled partly on Israel, into this discussion. It wasn’t really intentional, I just jumped to conclusions about the role of the analogy in MacDonald’s policies. I do intend to learn more about his views though (right now I just know him from the debate with Derbyshire).
Kevin Macdonald basically believes only the Arabs and Muslims can stop the Jewish strategy in America. But he is willing to make a deal with the Jews. Its a veiled threat by Macdonald. We will save you if you work with us. Or else you can deal with the Arabs and Muslims who are coming to America for many reasons including toppling the Jewish establishment which Macdonald thinks they can do easily.
I wonder what Macdonald thinks the long term goals of Arabs and Muslims in America is.
One thinh about Macdonals is he seems very smart and knowledgeable.
Macdonalds offer relies on basic assumptions:
1. Western societies are powerless against the Jews and can only save themselves by taking drastic actions like forced persecutions and forced exiles etc.
2. Jews are too ethnocentric for their own good and can’t seem to shake off their ethnocentrism even if it means another disaster for them
3. Only the Arabs and Muslims can contain them
He is vague about what exactly is the Arabs and Muslims long term goals in America is after they topple the Jewish establishment. But from his veiled threat it seems Macdonald believes that either the Jews work with Whites who might defend Israel for them(they are doing it anyways) or else face the rising influence of Arabs and Muslims who think like them and know how to deal with them. But what after that?
I have to say, I think this whole conversation is pretty dumb, but I read that first comment from Temoc (‘comet’ spelled backwards! crazy!), and I can’t help but wonder what the hell “Jewish Psychology” is. I mean, I have a reasonably literate working knowledge of most things Jewish, and somehow, I’ve never heard of “Jewish Psychology”.
What is it? Are there books on it that I can read? Are there books about it that haven’t been written by anti-Semites that I can read?
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