Is the Forward a degenerate hipster publication?
June 23, 2009 Forward
I have seen many an unfair frum interpretation of the JDF my time. But Steve Brizel’s, a RWMO friend of ours on Beyond BT, may have penned my favorite to date.
Steve Brizel left the following comment on the article, “Why do Frum Jews Purchase Anti-Orthodox and Anti-Israel Periodicals?”
The Forward, IMO, is a LW secular newspaper that includes a mix of predicable LW opinion, culture and sops to what passes for Jewish hipster culture, which was just panned in the latest issue of Commentary.
17 comments
Oh, please. As though everything he and his cronies at BT say isn’t predictable to the nth degree.
Frummies are the only Jews with no sense of irony.
Jeff,
The difference is, he runs a blog with a POV. They run a newspaper.
Halfsours, good point in general but just to clarify, Steve doesn’t run the blog and, in fact, has no say in day to day running of the blog whatsoever. He is a valued contributor and commentor.
Jeff, if you read the blog, even just the comments on the particular to which DK linked, you will find a fairly broad spectrum of political and social leanings amongst us “frummies”. You will find the same in the previous post on political affiliations within the orthodox community.
Yeah, I took a look. Your regular frum commenters are pretty much in lock-step. Who represents the “broad spectrum” in that thread – DK?
And Half Sours, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a blog or a periodical; “predicable LW opinion” applies in either case.
“And Half Sours, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a blog or a periodical; “predicable LW opinion” applies in either case.”
I don’t understand your point. I think Steve was expressing disappointment that the Forward newspaper would have such a pronounced editorial slant, and that those it’s slanted against still buy it. Similar to someone flabbergasted over liberal readers of the New York Post. There’s an expectation that newspaper will repress its POV in favor of impartiality.
A blog can — and a good one WILL — have a strong POV with no ethical qualms. Anyone with a consistent POV can be predictable — except DK, he’s full of delightful surprises. I’m not sure why you feel a blog merits scorn for being “predictable [in] opinion”. Please explain.
Well, in terms of reporting, a periodical should strive to be impartial, sure – but in terms of editorial opinion, there’s always a bias. Hasn’t the New York Times been a “liberal rag” for years?
(Anyway, there are no more liberals: http://link.brightcove.com/ser.....017295001)
Yeah, a blog can have a bias, but in this case, it’s “Hello, kettle? This is the pot. You’re black!”
“Yeah, a blog can have a bias, but in this case, it’s “Hello, kettle? This is the pot. You’re black!”
I don’t need to explain this any further. I’m sure you understand why Beyond BT and the Forward are not aptly compared in that way.
As a side note: I wouldn’t call the Times a rag. It does have an editorial slant, and that unfortunately detracts from its otherwise golden credibility.
OK maybe silver credibility — since they did have that incident a few years ago with that reporter who was fired.
Jeff, what about Steve Mantz’ points or Charlie Hall’s, they sure don’t sound too conservative or “lock step” to me.
I think Halfsour’s point is that a blog doesn’t need to be unbiased, a newspaper is supposed to be unbiased, at least as far as hard news is concerned. I don’t think most people have qualms with an editorial bias on the editorial page, it’s the bias in hard news stories that agitates.
it’s the bias in hard news stories that agitates
Please, David. We both know damned well that when Jewish newspapers report corruption and crime in the Orthodox world, the newspaper is deemed “anti-Orthodox” even when every piece of it is true.
Remember when Lanner was exposed by the Jewish Week? Oh, the screaming, the yelling, and the THREATS! Few were claiming wasn’t true — they were complaining that it was exposed to the public.
Frummies want secular to LWMO Jews to abide by the laws of Lashon Horah as codified by the Chafetz Chaim. Well, that isn’t how a free press operates. And you can’t have a liberal democracy without a free press.
Also, the very frum want it both ways, It’s find to report “Lashon Hora” about secular Jews…that they understand. Just not about frum Jews or rabbis.
By these standards, all non-Orthodox newspapers are “Ortho-bashers,” and even some moderate Orthodox ones.
“Please, David. We both know damned well that when Jewish newspapers report corruption and crime in the Orthodox world, the newspaper is deemed “anti-Orthodox” even when every piece of it is true.”
Please, David. You know very well that the Forward has a liberal slant. Don’t distill me and Linn’s down to exposes on orthodox corruption. That’s not what I’m taking issue with, and I imagine that’s not (exclusively at least) what Linn is taking issue with. By the way, I happen to think that the Forward is an excellent newspaper. As dicussed earlier, the Times has a slant too.
Frankly, I’m not actually taking issue with the Forward. Their editorial POV is what makes them a great Jewish paper. Gives them character. I was taking issue with Jeff’s syllogism.
You leave my syllogism out of this.
I’m not taking issue with any particular paper and I certainly don’t expect journalists to comply with halachah. All I’m saying is that it’s beyond naieve to believe that there is not a plotical/social bias in news stories as reported by any paper. As such, when faced with choices, I don’t see why it’s wrongheaded to ask why someone would read and support a periodical that is biased against the State of Israel, foe example. And, that’s all the post was, a question. I think there were some good answers given on both sides of the equation.
I don’t see why it’s wrongheaded to ask why someone would read and support a periodical that is biased against the State of Israel, foe example.
What overtly Jewish newspapers is biased against Israel? Do you mean general newspapers? Then I would say, why pick a newspaper based on its Israel position? Heck — I read newspapers that I consider replete with anti-American biases, like the NY Times.
The person that asked the question that formed the basis of the post didn’t limit it to Jewish papers. I can’t remember ever seeeing any anti-Orthodox bias in any mainstream secular periodical.
I think the question really was, if you can get your news from a source that is not what you perceive as anti-Israel and/or anti-Orthodox, why wouldn’t you?
I think it’s a legitimate answer that someone enjoys the non-news content, such as sports, arts, crossword, of a particular paper.
All of this is just my opinion and, as I’ve pointed out umpteen times before, BBT is a group blog. Anyone who actually reads it knows that there is a broad spectrum of religious and political opinion amongst not just the commentors but the writers. It’s as easy to place all of the writers and commentors into a neat box of “frummies” but that’s as simple, reductive and wrongheaded as calling DK a liberal.
Heck, we even let DK post there (resume builder!).
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