When did alternative become synonymous for ditzy?
February 4, 2010 Jewcy
Streaming narishkeit
Patrick Aleph is further proof that 1) the hipster movement is over, and 2) affiliated Liberal Jews are desperate in their attempts to stay “relevant” and to “engage.”
For those of us in the vanguard of the so-called “New Jew” movement, it was never about replacement. It was challenging the secular Liberal Jewish culture, not replacing the classic aspects of Jewish culture or community. I never intended Jewish poetry slams in the Village to replace Shabbos dinner. Just the opposite: I was hoping to meet like-minded people to bring to my own Shabbos dinners.
I never…WE never….ever….meant to suggest that there is a replacement for meeting community members gathering over a hot plate of chulent.
I had a bowl of chulent with community members and the retiring rabbi in my hometown this past shabbos. It was wonderful. Nothing will replace that. Nothing should replace that.
And yet…look what this Patrick Aleph person suggests, in “28 Days, 28 Ideas: Idea #2.”
Sure, a potluck Shabbat is fun. But the cost and time to put something like this together doesn’t appeal to the average Jew anymore. Instead, streaming an alternative Shabbat online and including a Second Life session or a game of Wii Tennis afterwards would honestly reach more people.
Honestly, this stuff somehow all gets both sillier and more earnest by the year.
And all of mainstream Jewry is increasingly singing its praises.
40 comments
That’s what you get when people try hard to have certain labels stuck onto them.
Wii Tennis? Seriously?
I’m the sort of person (or have been) you’re denigrating, and even I think that’s silly.
OTOH, it could be used as a tactic to lead young frummies away and corrupt their pure, untarnished souls…
it could be used as a tactic to lead young frummies away and corrupt their pure, untarnished souls
No one is falling for this shit, least of all the Jewishly literate.
Well, we could get a pushcart and go up and down the main streets in Willimasburg, Flatbush and Boro Park – “Neshomo corruption! Corrupt your neshomos here!”
Sorry, I know you take this seriously.
I really shouldn’t. Our civilization has become a joke, and the sooner I accept that, the happier I will be.
Our civilization has become a joke
Yes it has, a tragic one, although in moments like these I can see what a bad influence I am.
Well, at least I corrupted one neshomo!
Wii Tennis is cool, but I like Wii Swordfighting better.
Streaming narishkeit
That would be a good name for a band… or a blog.
I think it fair to say, Kelsey, that I am not bashful about calling you on your BS, but
“For those of us in the vanguard of the so-called “New Jew” movement, it was never about replacement. It was challenging the secular Liberal Jewish culture, not replacing the classic aspects of Jewish culture or community. I never intended Jewish poetry slams in the Village to replace Shabbos dinner. Just the opposite: I was hoping to meet like-minded people to bring to my own Shabbos dinners.”
may actually be just about the most profound and heartfelt expression of how at least some of us at Heeb have viewed our merry adventure. After Heeb’s 120 years, I think that should be inscribed on the headstone.
Dear DK,
Thank you not only for your reply on my Jewcy.com 28 Days/28 Ideas blogpost, but also reposting it your blog.
A few points you made about me (despite the fact that you have never actually met me):
1) I’m not sure how you define hipster, but if you ever hung out with me and my friends you’d quickly find out that we’re the least hip people on the planet. I don’t have the time, money, interest or soulessness to keep up with American Apparel, Urban Outfitters or the rest of the stuff that LA and NY likes to push on people. And honestly, I look ugly as hell in Skinny Jeans. It comes from living in the South and eating too well.
2) I, nor PunkTorah or our sister project IndieYeshiva, are “affiliated” with any movement in Judaism…if that is what you meant by “affiliated”…I am not entirely sure.
My main point, DK, is that you have your community. You love chulent with the retiring rabbi. But to be frank, if you’re the only Jew in West Virginia, or a stoner college kid who thinks the people at Hillel are boring, or a single, middle aged mother who wants to convert, or a member of the LGBT community who doesn’t feel welcome, then hanging out at the shul eating beans isn’t really the most appealing thing. It truly isn’t relevant.
People are becoming more and more virtual. Your blog is proof of that. So why not meet people where they are?
But to be frank, if you’re the only Jew in West Virginia
Then you probably ate lunch with me this past Shabbos at Beth Shalom, in Frederick, MD. The largest congregation in your proximity.
http://www.bethsholomfrederick.org/
D’oh…I live in a semi rural suburb of Atlanta (though I do know two West Virginia Jews and a Jewish studies student). Sorry for the confusion.
though I do know two West Virginia Jews
Did they get lost?
Dave,
Thanks for the publicity for Beth Sholom and our beloved Rabbi. We’ll be closed tomorrow because of the approaching snow storm, so no cholent. And, as you know, our Shul welcomes everyone, including the folks Patrick Aleph mentioned.
Jeff,
One of them is now a member of our Shul in Frederick.
Did you have to send out a search party?
With all due respect to Patrick Aleph, I for once (God help me) totally agree with Duvidle. Being the only Jew in some out of the way town is a sad state of affairs in terms of one’s Judaism. But the solution, if one does indeed want to enrich one’s Jewish life, is to get the fuck out of Dodge, so to speak. A streaming alternative Shabbat might seem like an easy fix, but what are ya gonna marry a Jewish avatar? Have virtual Jewish children? Eat a jpeg of chulent? Judaism is all about REAL community. Online minyanim are bullshit. Online Jewish life is uhm narishkeit compared to its flesh and blood alternatives. Get the fuck out of Dodge Patrick. You can’t have it both ways. Move to Israel. Move to the Upper West Side with Kelsey – hell, there are even Jews in non-rural Hotlanta. Find yourself a community of real people and be with them son. Be with them.
I agree with CK and DK, although the idea of replacing real Charedi Shabbos anti-desecration rioters with virtual ones has a certain appeal (like that Jpeg of chulent, line, by the way).
CK – “but what are ya gonna marry a Jewish avatar? Have virtual Jewish children?”
My virtual family is e-crying.
If we all “got the fuck out of dodge”, then the only Jewish communities would be in Brooklyn, Chicago, Boston and L.A. Guess what that spells… “Bo-ooring.”
Creating your own small communities outside of the larger communities often feels way more meaningful, and we in our small communities usually share a sense of intimacy that the big cities lack.
I am not a city kind of guy, I shouldn’t have to throw away my happiness of where I live and give up the joys of small town life to move to a huge city. That’s simply not fair.
I am not making aliyah or moving to Brooklyn. I’m happy in Oregon thank you very much.
Lucas, don’t mind CK so much. He’s so much of a Zionist that he’ll put blue sprinkles onto his mashed potatoes.
If we all “got the fuck out of dodge”, then the only Jewish communities would be in Brooklyn, Chicago, Boston and L.A. Guess what that spells… “Bo-ooring.”
That simply isn’t true. There’s a difference between being part of a small Jewish community in a small town or rural area – Burlington, Northampton, Oregon – and being the only Jew in town.
Of course, when you live out in the sticks, you do tend to miss out on some things. Did anyone read Postville, about the way Agriprocessors changed the nature of small Iowa town? The author kept extolling the virtues of living there; meanwhile, he and his wife couldn’t wait for visitors from New York to arrive bearing bagels, pastrami, etc., because they couldn’t get anything decent out there. Also, he complained continually about the fact that his young son was exposed to guns by their neighbor who hunted, that the scout master had them make decorations for Easter, etc. It was really rather childish. The Jewish experience in this country has been largely urban; if you’re going to live in an out of the way place, this is what you have to expect.
And Lucas, let me tell you – compared with the other, larger cities you mentioned, the Jewish community in Boston is nothing to write home about.
Jeff, that’s an American but not so much a typcally Jewish thing. The US is “a country without villages” afterall, and even though the largest Jewish community pre-WW2 was located in Berlin (approx. 170,000 Jews in a city of a little above 4,000,000 inhabitants = 4,25%, which compares to about 20% in Manhattan), most Jews lived in the countryside or small towns.
When I traded in my mohawk for a reverse mohawk aka payos I always hoped that I wouldnt have to deal with this wanna-b punk B.S. Punk Torah? Jews were the oringal punks. Shabby misfits hated on for not conforming to society. Rocking their own style of dress, music, and social scene having nothing to do with the corupting of the government and society at large. Moshe Rabbienu was more punk than Sid Vicious ever was.
Same ol stuff weve heard it all before Craaaaass being CRAAAAAAASS.
If you dont want to eat cholent there are many othere delicious delicacies but FACE 2 FACE is what is real not some online false connection.
When I traded in my mohawk for a reverse mohawk aka payos
This essay wasn’t appropriate for you. This one is appropriate for you: http://kvetcher.net/2006/01/29.....bsite-for/
DK. You dont know me or what is appropriate for me. Your infatuation with Ohr and Aish are beyond creepy. Its a borderline infatuation that any psych major could classify as Freudian and unhealthy.
Plus that blog is way to long to read. Between you and Failed Messiah you have the Jew Hate on lock down. Im surprised anyone has time to check out jewcy and jewschool after reading what you have to offer.
Hopefully this can help you
http://www.dailystrength.org/support-groups
Lucas: I hear ya. But like Jeff Eyges said, “There’s a difference between being part of a small Jewish community in a small town or rural area – Burlington, Northampton, Oregon – and being the only Jew in town.” I stand by my advice, if you find you’re the only Jew in town, then I strongly urge you to get out of town. This doesn’t mean that you MUST move to large urban centers, or make aliyah (although there are some lovely very rural places in Israel that one can live in). It does mean that you ought to find an appropriate Jewish community either large or small. Or, in Patrick’s case, maybe spend a few weekends with friends in Atlanta or something.
Though really? I just want y’all to move to Israel and join me and froylein for mashed potatoes with blue sprinkles. I gotta say it was so awesome having Kelsey hang with me in Jerusalem last summer. SO awesome.
Food for thought (maybe), what most of you perceive as authentic Jewish communal life has got its roots in the rural areas of (Eastern) Europe. (Even though some people try to derive tshulent – no ‘ch’, which suggests a different pronunciation – from the French “chaud”, that explanation lacks a lot as there’s no known similar stew in Western Europe.)
CK, you’ve forgotten to tell everybody to have Jewish kids.
Jeff, that’s an American but not so much a typcally Jewish thing… most Jews lived in the countryside or small towns.
That’s why I said, “The Jewish experience in this country.
And then you equal it to Jewish community life of late 19th / early 20th century rural Europe (specific foods, specific demographies, no thorough mingling). Doesn’t sound progressive to me.
I’m not equating it to anything. I was trying to draw upon one person’s recounting of his experience, to move from the specific to the general, in response to what Lucas had said earlier.
The reality on the ground is that in this country, the Jewish experience has been a largely urban (and, in the latter half of the 2oth century, suburban) phenomenon. If one finds oneself in a small gentile town with little or no Jewish contact, and one wishes to have that, then ck is correct – it’s time to “get out of Dodge” (an old saying drawn from the history of the American West). Of course, not everyone wants that, and sometimes, it isn’t possible, due to employment considerations, etc.
A few wiseass comments
“… even though the largest Jewish community pre-WW2 was located in Berlin…”
Sarah, for once, you made a mistake–Berlin’s Jewish population was far from the largest in pre-war Europe (I’m presuming you meant “Europe,” but if you left out “Germany” by mistake, then forget what I’m saying). Warsaw, Budapest (known as “Judapest” had both larger populations and a far greater share of the population, and I’m presuming that there were cities in the USSR with larger Jewish populations as well.
Mimo, you wrote: “having nothing to do with the corupting of the government and society at large. Moshe Rabbienu was more punk than Sid Vicious ever was.”
In the pre-modern period, Jews often had much to do with government and society at large. Jews often served as financiers and agents for rulers in central and Eastern Europe, moneylenders in the German states, and operated wide array of businesses serving both nobles and the larger population in Poland. It’s fair to say that the people serving as distillers and tavernkeepers had much to do with larger society. And Jews had their own autonomous governments which were as prone to corruption as any government.
Finally, this blog is a prime example of why virtual community can’t replace authentic community. Online, DK is a lunatic who toadies up to white supremacists–in person, he’s actually fairly likable.
Jewdar, you’re right; I meant Germany. In Czarist Russia, not many Jews were permitted to live in cities. There was / is a lot of resentment among pro-Czarist FSU nationals of German background cause the Communists permitted Jews to live in cities while they were not and largely got moved east.
You’re also right that Kelsey is likable in person.
Jeff, but how is it urban if it reflects the (then mostly imposed) seclusion of rural Europe in contrast to the secular progressive, academic – ignorants call it “assimilated” – Judaism that was typical of cities?
1. I’m not talking about Europe. I don’t know why you keep bringing it up.
2. The Judaism of the cities wasn’t assimilationist, at first. That came decades – and in some venues, centuries – later. Again – in America.
I keep mentioning Europe because all that’s being sold here as urban Jewish community life is a knock-off of rural European Jewish life as it used to be like decades ago – just at a big scale, but no different in essence. It wouldn’t tempt me to move into a larger city and I can see why others aren’t tempted by it either.
European Jewish “assimilation” is often blamed as one of the reasons for the Holocaust in certain circles. The Jewish “Enlightment” or “Emancipation” has got a distinct European flavour to it. American Jewry didn’t go through that immense transition. I’d consider it more typical of American Jewry to find the “retro” (not to say “backwards”) movement in BT institutions, customs previously unknown, adamant sectarianism among those that consider themselves the keepers of the faith etc.
No one here is holding up the shtetl as an ideal. What’s being discussed is the nature of community. It isn’t a “knock-off” of the rural European Jewish experience. Community is being redefined in new ways all the time – it’s a byproduct of technology – and all that David and ck are saying is that Wii Tennis doesn’t qualify (although I get Patrick’s point that a streaming Shabbat online can be all that some people have available to them). And what I said was twofold:
1. There’s a difference between small town Judaism and being the only Jew in town (here, I was actually sticking up for the small town experience);
2. If one chooses (as did Stephen Bloom, the author of Postville, a chronicle of the Rubashkins before their demise) to live in a small town with almost no Jews in the heartland of Christian America, then don’t bitch about the gentile flavor of it and the lack of Jewish icons and support structures (culinary and otherwise). There are alternatives; I mentioned two – Burlington, VT and Northampton, MA. These are small towns with small but viable and cohesive Jewish communities.
And another thing – although no one is trying to push this on anyone else, NYC is subdivided into neighborhoods with individual flavors. The Jewish community of the Upper West Side is unlike the community in the East or West Villages, or the LES, or in Brooklyn. So you could argue that they have “small-town” environments with the advantages of a large city with various resources. David can speak more intelligently to that than I can.
In any case, that’s the extent of it. That’s all that’s being said here. No one is trying to turn anyone into Tevye in the City.
Jeff, Tevye’s culture in an updated version is getting promoted as the real deal – cause the “normative” influence is that of those whose ancestors shared Tevye’s culture. It’s stagnation, not progress or development (unless, of course, you content with mediocre theology, arts etc.), to the extent of kitsch.
Okay, you seem to be saying two different things. On the one hand, you say,
I keep mentioning Europe because all that’s being sold here as urban Jewish community life is a knock-off of rural European Jewish life as it used to be like decades ago – just at a big scale, but no different in essence. It wouldn’t tempt me to move into a larger city and I can see why others aren’t tempted by it either.
On the other,
Tevye’s culture in an updated version is getting promoted as the real deal – cause the “normative” influence is that of those whose ancestors shared Tevye’s culture. It’s stagnation, not progress or development (unless, of course, you content with mediocre theology, arts etc.), to the extent of kitsch.
So you’re saying you’d move to the city if it offered a new form of community?
And don’t you live in a university town anyway? That’s hardly like a small town here.
“I keep mentioning Europe because all that’s being sold here as urban Jewish community life is a knock-off of rural European Jewish life as it used to be like decades ago – just at a big scale, but no different in essence.”
Is that really what you think is being “sold here”?
I think we are creating our own experience. As a minority, we tend to stick together. I think, if not only for myself, that what we are craving community-wise here in America is authentically ours, we are no longer our great-grandparents, or our parents, we are making our own stand and living our own lives.
Like attracts like, and in our case that means creating Jewish communities, or craving them… or complaining about not having them. (or complaining about having them) And all of that is totally fine, and totally ours.
And for the record, I think Boston has a great Jewish community. I grew up in the woods of western Massachusetts, and making the trek to Boston was always something to look forward to, even as an adult.
Now that I like in Portland, OR… I find myself totally missing East Coast Jewry. Portland may have a fair amount of Jews, but statistically speaking we really just have a huge amount of unaffiliated and secular Jews. Which is fine, unless you are looking for a Jewish community. So it feels frustrating, so see all this potential for greatness, and realize that it will probably never become what I wish that it would be. Not to mention the Jewish part of town, is totally far away and all strip-malls and boring crap. And all it has to offer is some synagogues and an Albertsons with some kosher food. Disappointing.
But if we didn’t complain, we wouldn’t be Jewish. haha.
Jeff, Lucas, I’m talking from my experience of frequent stays in NYC over the past eight years; what is being sold as novelty, authentically NYC community life there is watered-down European rural Jewish life glossed over.
Jeff, I live in village, but the cities, towns and villages here are like a chain; this area is densely populated. It takes me about as much time to get from here to e.g. Luxembourg or Brussels as it takes me to get from Brooklyn to Kelsey’s.
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